The Midfield Toilers

Yes Mellis has been disappointing though mainly played put of position which hasn't helped. McCourt I suspect will struggle with the physical demands of starting week in and week out but did look a viable alternative. When he's fit Digby needs to start the more he plays the more resilient he will get.

 

Absolutely. Fantastic players and integral parts of any team. Just as an attacking midfielder should be in ours.

 

Agree

 

Interesting to choose 2 of our less able attacking players to back this up. Not so favourable compared with Hamill or Butterfield or Campbell Ryce. The assists thing is crucial too it shows a defensive midfielder offering an outlet. Good defensive midfielders are as valuable an asset as good attacking ones but you have to have balance. We have none. Centrally 1 attack minded player I defensive midfielder. Not 2 defensive midfielders with another one on the wing while your creative midfielder is shoved onto the other wing.

 

Re: Whenever a flair player is introduced

That's fair. But we've already had the likes of Jennings & McCourt being derided, despite their lack of playing time (for whatever reason). Comments along the lines of "This season's Mido", "One trick pony", "Not impressive", "Doesn't do enough defensively" have already been laid at their door. Perhaps we should all become acolytes of the coaches & pseudo-coaches who denigrate such talent, demanding effort & commitment above all else.

 

Having one Claude Makelele in your side is a good thing. Do you think Chelsea would have won the league title if they had played three Claude Makelele types in their midfield during the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons? Frank Lampard played along side him and scored 13 league goals in 04-05 and 16 in 05-06.

Most teams try to get a Makelele in their midfield or a Perkins/Etuhu if you're playing at our level. Some play two. It's only us this season that play three. It's like forfeiting the game. You know before kick off that you're going to get nothing offensively from your midfield.

 

Again, as previously i agree. Although I don't think we're good enough to play 4 in the midfield. We need 5.

But Dawson's goals per game record is the same as Butterfield and JCR's is only slightly better.

Neither of which is a far comparison as (the excellent) Jacob Butterfield was a sub for many of those games and was very young when he played many of those.

But it just shows that simple statistics don't tell the whole story.

 

Re: Whenever a flair player is introduced

Certainly not from me. Although I do find it easier to excuse a lack of ability than a lack of effort. Barcelona are the hardest working team I've ever seen without the ball, and I can't think of any top players in the world who don't work hard. I like the Brendan Rodgers quote:

“The strength of us is the team. Leo Messi has made it very difficult for players who think they are good players. He’s a real team player. He is ultimately the best player in the world and may go on to become the best ever. But he’s also a team player…If you have someone like Messi doing it then I’m sure my friend Nathan Dyer can do it. It is an easy sell.”

 

Completely agree. Just pointing out that a lack of goals doesn't make a midfielder a bad player in response to:

'When did it become acceptable for midfield players to contribute so little towards the goals for column? People will probably try and defend them by saying they bring other things to the team or it's not their job to score goals - which would be complete ********.'

 

In Butterfields case I think you can compare with his last season as it was the only one he was a regular starter 5 goals and 7 assists in half a season.

I think we are mainly in agreement. Some of my favoritite Barnsley players such as Sheridan, Little and McHale were defensive midfielders they all however offered some attacking threat. Dawson's record of never having created a Barnsley goal is an unenviable one.

 

To be fair, Conan was talking about these three players as a collective and that's how they have been played this season. Personally, I don't think it is acceptable to play them all together in the same midfield.

 

Mellis may not have played well, but isn't it much easier for the opposition to know that if they stop him and O'Grady we'll struggle to create a chance.

Thinking back to when we were dour in the Machin years, we still had lots of players chipping in with goals from midfield and all played a part in attacking and defending. Our balance is wrong and there are few who seem able to do both jobs which highly limits us.

Look at Watford, all looked comfortable on the ball and all had the ability to create and get a goal. The fact 5 different players scored just emphasises that further.

We're also not contributing goals from our defenders. I don't think a defender has scored for us (in the right net) as yet have they? And last season was pretty sparse too, can only think of Hassell, Foster and Golbourne (all single figures) off the top of my head.

Again thinking back, the likes of Shotton, Tiler, Taggart, Smith all managed to chip in with 3-8 goals a season.

 

Again, I agree

I'm not saying that the flair players can't, or shouldn't, contribute to that part of the game, but NOT at the expense of their creativity. The players you've mentioned are brilliant examples of flair players doing exactly that. But those same players do their best work in areas which hurt and cause problems for the opposition. My point, and I believe Conan's, is that the toilers should also be contributing to the team's goalscoring & creating chances. If we're going to demand the likes of Mellis, RNL, McCourt & Jennings to do some toiling, then players such as Perkins, Dawson & Etuhu can start scoring & creating chances far more often than they're currently doing.

 

Re: Whenever a flair player is introduced

Trouble is - the manager pulls Mellis up publically about his lack of 'hard work' etc - but won't pull Dawson etc up about their lack of creativity.

Either discuss all players' shortcomings in public or none at all imho.

 

Re: Whenever a flair player is introduced

Am I? The quotes I've used are from fans on the BBS.

 

I know you know this but these lads have played in a poor side for a couple of years. We've also not had a striker score more than 12/13 in a while - that's unbelievable.

 

Agree with pretty much everything here. It's also about time RNL got a consistent run as an attacking player as he has pace verve and can shoot.

 

Re: Whenever a flair player is introduced

I agree.

 

Re: Whenever a flair player is introduced

That's exactly right it's not Mellis primary job to chase all over the pitch defending he should do his bit and I can see that occasionally you would need a quiet word but if you are speaking in public you should also say those other 3 in midfield need to work on all aspects of their attacking game they have been poor. It's a shame our flair players like arNL are being battered down while the toilers get celebrated. We need a balanced approach.