Just watched the first half again on Player..

Aye, I'm a right exciting basterd aren't I?

But I suggest SuperTyke watches it again, too. Mellis was actually better than I originally thought at the game. Got stuck in more than anyone, other than Manny. I felt absolutely puzzled by your comments previously, but now feel even more so. Perhaps you've ulterior motives behind your criticism?

However, I didn't think Kennedy was as bad as some made out after the game in that first half, but having watched it again, he was bloody shocking. But full credit to him for sticking at it. Had a torrid 30 minutes or so, but then began to link nicely with Jennings. I'd fear for us though if he had a less combative winger in front of him. Jennings and Manny bailed him out quite regular. Clearly singled out by Holloway as our weak link, hence sticking Morison on him.

Might watch the second half now.

What a rock and roll life I lead.

 

Thought mellis got stuck in and set up a lot our play , number of times kennedy could av gone down left wing yesterday , but he has little confidence. Was acres of space in first half for him to run down wing . Too often kennedy takes an extra touch or slows our attacking play up . But we won which is all what matters

 

I thought mellis was good yesterday. It's clear to see that Kennedy has no confidence at all. Doesn't even dare take players on and playing simple balls seem to take him longer than usual

 

The trouble with watching through the lens of a camera is that it follows the ball. It is therefore excellent at determining how effective a player is when he is on the ball, but next to useless at showing what he does when he is not on the ball.

The trouble with Mellis is that he makes little attempt to get back into his defensive formation when the ball is lost. That mean he has to run hard to get back into midfield ahead of the back four in a central location. The work of harrying the passer and marking the spaces in front of the back four begins when he has regained his defensive alignment. There were many occasions on Saturday when Frimpong was left alone to cope with a couple of Millwall midfielders breaking through onto the Barnsley back four. When I searched for the missing defensive midfielder, I found Mellis had not even broken into a trot and was still to be found at the half way line.

I'm sorry but working your **** off is a basic requirement for any central midfielder in a 4-4-2 system, and as someone who has played the game at a decent level, you should know this. I we play 4-4-1-1 then his reluctance to work is just about acceptable, but in 4-4-2 it is not. It resulted in the manager having to unbalance the right side of the team in order to cover for him. The fact that it did not cost us a goal was down to JOB doing both his own work and also that of Mellis.

In my view, Proschewitz should also have gone at half time. The fact that he was out sprinted by Danny Shittu was evidence enough for me.

 

I thought he linked up well, Proschwitz. But he was rarely given opportunity to get into the box where it is clear he is at his most effective. The few occasions we got to the byline and cut it back, we caused them problems. Unfortunately, we didn't do this often enough, in part down to Millwall's focus on attacking our left back, and our left backs inability to push on. I can't state it enough just how vital Jennings was to us yesterday. Kennedy better have bought him a drink in appreciation.

I totally get your point on Mellis. But we've brought Frimpong in to do the hard yards in the middle. We're not asking/expecting him to get into decent offensive positions are we? Once or twice yesterday he could have run into good space, or played a man in had he been offensively minded. But he's got clear instructions I feel, to keep it simple, retain possession. And so he goes short and back more often than not.
Jacob is expected to play more advanced of the two, to link with the front men etc. And he did that well considering opportunities to do so were limited due to Millwall's direct tactics. And for my money, he got stuck in plenty. There was certainly no lack of effort or heart, as suggested by others. But yes he occasionally ends up out of position. Which is why I always prefer three in central midfield. I always have, always will. Never been a 4-4-2 fan.

But we're talking about a young lad here who until last season with us had barely played any first team football whatsoever, despite his million pound move as a young lad to Chelsea. A young lad who has then been played on the right, the left, central, in the hole and so on and so forth. It's all fine and dandy to suggest they 'should' be able to do this, or do that. But it always seems to be the 'footballers' who are called up on that. I rarely hear/read similar things said about defenders, defensive midfielders or strikers. For example, I find it laughable that a highly paid professional footballer at this level is unable/unwilling to use his weaker foot. I'd mastered that issue by 8 year old. Hence why I played on the left (at a vastly weaker level it has to be said), mainly because I could use that foot just as confidently as I could my stronger right. And over the last few years, I've been staggered at the amount of one-footed specialists brought to our club. Golbourne, Perkins, Dawson, Kennedy and McNulty to name a few. It seems to be a leftie issue, doesn't it?

We all know Mellis' limitations. He's unlikely to ever be your Neil Redfearn box-to-box dynamo. And he's not a Ronnie Glavin or Craig Hignett number 10 either. But he's an extremely talented young player who I enjoy watching. Just as I enjoyed watching young Frimpong alongside him yesterday, another lad with less than 50 games played in his career to date. And then we've Jennings, just 20 years old. It's a very young, inexperienced midfield. But it's exciting to think that if we stay up, and retain all three of them, that they could all develop further and earn us a pretty penny in the future, or even lead us to brighter times further up the football ladder?


Goodnight, all.

 

I think the main point about Mellis that is overlooked is his lack of experience in the professional game as Whitey points out he has played very little professional football the same can be said for both Jennings and Frimpong. Of course Mellis makes mistakes/has areas to work on. Jennings struggles with his finishing and final action. Frimpong offers little attacking threat. We don't have complete midfielders if any of them could do everything I'd suggest they'd be doing it for Chelsea, Arsenal and Bayern not us.

Mellis would be more effective in a 3 in the middle but Danny has chose to bring in Frimpong to do his running for him and play 442. In terms of formation I don't believe that this is his preferred formation given that he has always favoured wing backs but he is working with what he's got.

I wouldn't expect Frimpong to burst into the box and score/create and whilst I expect Mellis to get a foot in and be competitive it is unsurprising that sometimes he is out of position.

I know without Mellis our play becomes static and one dimensional and we look weaker offensively.

 

This.

 

In Supertyke's original post, he was making the point that Mellis was lazy on Saturday. You began this thread by suggesting that Supertyke watch the game again on Player because you thought that he may have an ulterior motive for his comment. My original comment addresses this point specifically. If Mellis has aspirations to fill the central midfield role in a 4-4-2, the first and most basic requirement in football the way it is played in the early 21st century is that he must have the endurance to do the work that is involved. This is not negotiable. This is not something that can be ignored on the basis of what is offered in other aspects of his game. This is something that is so basic to the position that it is a minimum requirement for any player wanting to play in that position. Without it, we are constantly exposed to counter attack down the centre of the pitch.

On Saturday, he was OK for 15 minutes or so. Then I noticed that we were starting to get cut open on counter attacks straight down the middle, so I specifically followed Mellis and Frimpong when Millwall had the ball and commented to my mate beside me on what I saw. And what I saw was that Mellis had blown up. He was either physically unable to get back into position when we lost the ball, or he could not be bothered. This is not a question of how many tackles he made. It is a question of whether he got back into the defensive formation as quickly as possible once the ball was lost so that the team has enough players in position so it can pressure the ball and not simply have it passed around them because there are insufficient players to make that pressure count. This situation lasted another 15 minutes until Wilson was forced to move O'Brien inside in order to cover for the absence of Mellis.

I do not need to watch Player again to know that this is what happened because it was a source of irritation to me throughout the first half. Nevertheless, I was equally critical of Proschwitz's performance and at half time, I expected that he would be the player removed in order to allow Mellis to play behind O'Grady in a 4-4-1-1. The fact that Wilson chose to remove Mellis suggests to me that he was struggling for some reason. Nevertheless, that does not alter any of the above.

 

So, in other words, we want Jacob Mellis to retain his quality and attacking intent yet show the determination and graft of Dawson? Because if he did then he'd be playing Premier League.

I think he works hard. I think people see what they want to see in terms of his graft and as soon as he loses a tackle he's got no bottle. Put him in my team in central midfield any day because he can win us games from there. He can't from anywhere else.

And the comment about JOB is why he's in the team ahead of Paddy or Cywka, to cover and help. He sees Mellis as our genuine match winner (IMHO) so is putting a team around that can allow him to do what he's good at and cover what he's not. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Wow. Completely agree Dyson.

 

*logs off*

 

Don't you think Mellis would still be at Chelsea if he could be the complete player you describe?

 

Can we take it as a given that every player currently plying his trade in the championship is doing so because he does not have the quality required to play in the Premier League. There is more than the lack of endurance that is preventing Jacob Mellis from playing in the Premier League, I can assure you. My comments are about what is preventing Jacob Mellis from becoming a decent Championship player. In the modern game, any player aspiring to play in the centre of a midfield four must have endurance. This is something that is not negotiable in the modern game. If your opponent continues to run once you have stopped, he finds space and he finds time. Once your opponent finds time and space, he can find the pass that will lead to a goal.

I do not get this argument that compares the midfield workhorse (toiler) to the workshy magician. Players with energy but no skill are just as much a liability as those with skill but no energy. It is not an argument between one and another, nor is it an argument that you cannot have both. You can have degrees of both. The art is finding players with the right degree of both that can be afforded within the budget available. The problem with our team is that we have too many players at the extremes, too many players with skill but no application and too many players with application but not enough skill. I will not be dragged into the argument that you can only have one or the other.

 

You continue to not be dragged then my friend. I think he's a good player and you're doing him a dis-service.

 

So Mellis needs to win a 10,000m race before we can consider him a decent midfielder.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120659/

 

I love the arrogance of the person who dismisses Mellis most amusing. Of course our manager a proper football person chooses to build his team around him but what does he know compared to the self appointed tactical genius...I don't know what world people live in where they believe we can afford complete midfield players who can attack, defend and presumably whip up a meal at half time certainly not the real world.

 

I suggest we sign my two year old she runs about all day.

 

Have to agree, and fwiw I think Mellis does some of the 'nasty' side as well - it's not his main attribute though.

 

Red Rain, I enjoy your posts and wish you'd contribute more often. That said, it's very rare we ever reach common ground in an argument, let alone agree. I'm well aware of Mellis' limitations, and have already stated so. But you are continuing to try and educate me on fine nuances of the game in an effort to either condescend me, or give you reason to ignore points that I have made that others have also put forward too.
The lad is young, still developing, and came to us with practically zero work rate or endeavour. Butterfield was the same a few years ago. All kinds of quality on the ball, capable of winning a game by himself. But two a season and a half later it is my opinion that Mellis has improved his defensive game. He works as hard as anyone, and is not lacking in the heart department or passion stakes. And that was why I created the thread in response to SuperTyke. Because in no way was Jacob lacking in those areas, and I found his suggestion that the lad was lazy quite bizarre. I didn't ever claim he was always in position or whatever benign issue you have with him.
We had just won, and time for criticising players could be put off for at least a week, in my opinion. I disagree on Proschwitz as well. He did ok for me.

 

Unlike most posters on here, I support the managers of Barnsley Football Club .... all of them. I absolutely support the team that Danny picked on Saturday and I also support his decision to remove Mellis at half time and Proschewitz in the second half. I shall continue to support the manager whoever he picks in Red. I will continue to support the manager even if we are relegated. It is clear that a professional knows more about the game than I will ever know. I value this board as a way of debating the issues and testing my opinions against those of other contributors as a way of improving my knowledge and understanding of the game. You do not improve your knowledge and understanding of the game if you simply agree with whatever is said. I tend to chose those who I consider the more knowledgeable members of this community to debate these questions with as I have no desire to simply win easy arguments. Neither have I any desire to belittle or call other posters names.

The ability to run is not confined to midfield toilers as some would have it. Apparently, the rule at Barcelona when Pep Guardiola was in charge was that if you cannot score a goal within 20 seconds of winning the ball, then just keep it. They keep it and they make their opponents run .... and run .... and run. They do so because their aim is to get their opponents so tired that they stop running. When their opponents stop running, they know there will be more space and that is when they strike. If you doubt the importance of endurance, then all just need to do it observe the methods of the top coaches.