John Hendrie (the manager)

Would absolutely not play himself alongside Jan-Aage was my abiding memory, whilst they were our two form players and arguably best players at the time (I include Ward in that). I sensed a spat it was that obvious...

 

Bull...

 

I can't agree with that

 

We've spent significantly more time in the second tier than any other team.

 

Is it true that he fell out with Clint Marcelle as well? Clint was not premier league quality, but he was more than good enough for the second tier. In his book 'Don't call me happy', he talks about how he fell out with Andy Lidell. Of course he attributes the problem to Andy Liddell. Hendrie was an outstanding player - really was class - but definitely a poor choice as manager.

 

That's true.

But we've spent years in leagues lower than the second tier

And one only in the top tier

If someoe can be bothered to work out our league position (not which league), out of 92ish clubs, year after year, i reckon you will find us either hanging around the bottom 0f the second tier or in possibly in the third.

So therefore roughly where we are now

And not anyuwhere near able to blame John Hendrie, or anyone else, for where we are now.

We are where we belong

 

Not arguing about the rights or wrongs of the post but re the last post we are the most successful championship club of all time by quite some distance based on years spent in it.


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I don't think I've ever been as wet as I was that day, whilst fully clothed. We got back into London after the game, went to a pub at the top of Baker Street and basically sat on the radiator.

 

Er. Funnily enough I did just that, about three years ago. I used a few different ways of working the average positions out and the best we did was in the bottom 3 or 4 of the second flight, but most methods had us top 3 or 4 in the third flight, just as you say. I'll try to dig it out and update it, but after the last few seasons I would imagine that all methods will now leave us near the top of the third flight. And this despite us spending so long in the second flight. The reason being that most second flight teams have also had longer in the top flight than us, which knocks their average up. I must admit, when I set about doing it I expected us to be higher up than we ended up. It must be on my computer somewhere, so I'll have a look tomorrow.

 

Depends how you judge successful. If you're just talking longevity then yes. Even the amount of wins and (possibly, although I haven't seen the table for a while), the amount of goals are records that won't be beaten for some time. Off the top of my head I think Leicester were second in the amount of wins, but some way behind us. However, we also hold the record for the amount of defeats that will never be beaten, or at least can only be beaten if a team moves between the second and third flight year after year for the next twenty years, losing every game each time they get promoted.

On points per game we must be one of the least successful second flight teams, and on top 6 finishes there can't be many teams who have been in the second flight for more than a dozen or so seasons that have a worse record than us. We've spent far longer in the bottom of half of the second flight than we have the top half. We've only really had two spells of sustained (and by that I mean for three or four successive seasons) finishes in the top 10 in many decades. They just happen to have been in recentish memory, i.e. early to mid 80s and mid to late 90s. The rest of the time over the past fifth years we have had several seasons of mid-table second flight, lots of lower table second flight and big chunks in lower divisions, with the odd decent season.

 

If that's true, sell the lot off and build a Lidl cos I'm not bothered anymore.

 

Very selfish. What about the true fans who will support (and have done) the team in Divs 3 and 4.

 

Purely on years spent and possibly on points accrued in that division alone. We've never been successful we've always been there.


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That match we gave them their first ever defeat at their new ground I believe.

 

My wife is prepared to have your baby. Though it may require medical input.

Whilst I can continue to remember quite a few of the years of lower league seasons that produce the average bottom 2nd league/ top 3rd league position that you kindly took the time to deduce.

 

I actually had a look today and remembered that I had based it purely on the years that I had been going to watch them, which is since the 76-77 season, so considering that we have spent the bulk of that time in the second flight it probably makes it even worse. I appear to have done this in 2011, so it will need a bit of updating. I can only imagine I wasn't as busy at work in 2011 as I am nowadays! Once I have done it I'll shove it on here.

 

It seems awful to use statistics to prove how we should limit our ambitions.

Football is all about money now.

It could be shown that we are historically lower league, but if Sheikh Gorralot decides he wants to anoint us it all goes out of the window

Not too long ago the footballers were paid the same as Joe Average. There was no especial tv money. The entrance fees were low. There was sod all else to do on a Saturday.

The playing field was more level.

We are going one way. So let's try and enjoy watching our homegrown develop. Like Stones.

We may get back to the league above some time or other.

That is our only realistic ambition these days

 

There's a good insight into John as a manager in Lars Leese book...if its true.

 

1903 to 2014 - average position in the footballing pyramid 42. Final relegation spot of the Championship.

 

Not signing Russell Latapy when he had the chance (because he was too much like Clint Marcelle apparently) ranks pretty highly in the all-time list of Oakwell managerial blunders. Couldn't believe it at the time, and that was without the benefit of hindsight. I clearly remember Latapy being described subsequently as the 'only genuinely world-class player on the park' while playing for Glasgow Rangers in a Champions League match.