Oh look, another Scottish Independence thread!

Just read this and I thought it was interesting, so I wanted to pass it along.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opinion/paul-krugman-scots-what-the-heck.html

 

But the pro independence politicians say it'llall be ok, and the scotts are lapping it up so they'll be alright. Apparently.

I do find it funny (and worrying) to read arabian ian on here telling us all how stupid we are for listening to the 'no' politicians as they are liars while telling us that the 'yes' politicians are the salt of the earth and only speak truth and facts.

I really don't know how independence would work out for them but I am struggling with how they are going to make it work.

 

If I were Scottish and had that shower of ***** telling me to vote No then it would have to be a Yes.

 

Let's face it - Labour is going to lose a helluva lot of MPs from Scotland -
hence the re-emergence of Gordon Brown - remember him????

 

They're all the same MrsHT. That's my point. All spin the facts to suit their agenda.

 

I agree Ponty and has Tommy as put above we will be stuck with the Tories if the Scots win, although personally If I were a Scot I would vote Yes and **** the consequences.

 

I genuinely don't know how anyone is expected to make a decision based on 'facts'. Largely becuase there's pretty much no such thing. Every piece of information has been produced by someone with an agenda, and statistics taken in isolation prove nothing - ignore underlying causes, have different interpretations and so on. For every economist the no campaign produces, the yes campaign will produce one who says the opposite. For every flawed independent country that is held up as a reason to vote no, one can be produced that is succesful.

People will vote with their instinct. Generally I think when push comes to the shove British people are little 'c' conservative. Its why we rejected AV, and why IMO if there was a referendum on the EU we would vote to stay in. There's no greater example of this conservatism than the fact that we've just been through the biggest economic crisis of most of our lifetimes and what have we done, abandonned the flawed neo-liberal capitalist agenda in favour of a radical alternative? No, we've lurched even further in to the system that caused it.

And its this last point which I think has led to the 'yes' campaign gaining so much traction. Its a backlash against a political system where not even the left is prepared to provide an alternative to free market capitalism, and they see a chance to move away from that. I'm not sure it'll work out that way, there's historically a strong social conservatism in Scotland too which might start to bite when expensive progressive policies require progressive taxation. But if I lived somewhere that never votes in a Conservative government but gets one half the time then I can certainly see the attraction of independence where you could determine your own fate.

Either way its not for me to tell Socttish people what to do. When this first came on the agenda I said to my mates that it would ultimately end up with more powers being devolved and greater fiscal automony for Scotland as a compromise to stave off full independence. This is what the no campaign are now offering up at the 11th hour. Maybe if they'd done so earlier and not been so bullying about the whole thing it might not be as close.

 

What, like South yorkshire? But no-one seriously advocates Yorkshire independence - because we're not dicks.

 

I'd rather see them leave than get more powers and handouts and benefits, they've already got free prescriptions, no student fees, and if they become pretty much independent except in name there is no way Scottish MPs should be allowed to vote on English/Welsh matters.

If they get "Devo Max" then England should get the same.

 

Politics is pish anyrooad.

 

We should all have those things. Race to the bottom though, eh?

 

Im sure they have all done their research but still don't get, how they can use another county's currency and who will be guarantor as a resort of the last lender, please not RBS!!!
Good luck to the Scots anyway, we will soon see who has been talking rubbish all along

 

Yes but you believe all that austerity/ cuts nonsense the Scots do, public spending has actually gone up.

No PM has ever managed to cut public spending, not even Thatcher.

 

It's impossible isn't it? We have an increasing population and an economic system that requires inflation. If you've got more people to provide for and the stuff you buy costs more money, it's impossible to spend less without allowing people to starve to death. The flip side of that is the same system continually provides more tax income to pay for it, but you can't spend less when things cost more and more people need them.

 

Ponty, sorry but I don't think I called anyone stupid but if I did I'm sorry mate. At the end of the day everyone has an opinion.
As for the NO lot it has been proved that their campaign of fear was full of lies. So they are liars.
I agree the YES lot may very well be the same but as yet they have not been found out.

And Ponty you say you are struggling how we will make it work. Well ponty correct me if I am wrong but I don't think Cameron's lot are making anything work either.

Seems to me that you are more worried of the consequences to England once we leave. Gonna be big changes to both Scotland and England, that there is no doubt.

 

I think realistically there are two outcomes:

1). They vote No, get more devolved government and have another referedum costing £xmillion in 10 years or so.

2). They vote Yes, and at some point it goes wrong and they want to come back after costing £xbillion to bail them out (you can't have free prescriptions, free education, etc without the money to come back from somewhere else). - Although given our suffering under a Conservative government they will probably be better off no matter how bad it gets.

1) is cheaper but either way would have lots of moaning from both sides.

 

Scoff our trump card is not financing Trident. The savings of not servicing and upgrading Trident comes into the multi million pound category maybe even billions. Then that money we save there will go towards the continuation of free prescriptions and health care for the elderly, our national health service and education for the young and other causes which Cameron and his lot deny you all in England.

 

You're not a name caller ian so I wouldn't accuse you of that. It's just the flavour of your posts and the way I worded it.

On some points like the currency I just don't believe that the YES side are accepting of the reality. And it's a pretty important aspect of it all.

I don't think Cameron is doing a good job either, and I'll never vote tory. But the answer is in the voters demanding political change, not a large % buggering off to struggle on their own despite the politics they prefer.

I am worried about you leaving for that reason. But I also think it'll be a massive mistake on your part too. You should be staying with your like minded brethren in the north of England.

 

Take a wee look at this because Tommy says exactly what I believe. I've no idea how you all would vote if you were in my position but listening to this man fills my Scottish heart with pride.

http://youtu.be/mFWdbXqqhZE

 

Reckon plenty would like more devolved power though