Oh look, another Scottish Independence thread!

Wow you must be a mind reader mate (this is not a rip take but a serious question) what happens to the Nukes at faslane then?
Also I see one sight said that this was Scotland's biggest employer. So what happens to their jobs, with possibly 11,000 people directly or indirectly involved?Ok I know that politicians talk but there's still a lot of people on the dole.
For what its worth my mates north of the border are now all voting yes

 

Except for the 220k students in Scotland at £9k each = £1.98billion and annual cost of NHS (Scotland) = £10billion. Annual Operating costs of Trident = £2.5billion (2013 figures) for the entire UK. So you've got £9.5 billion to make up *every* year.

 

Not disagreeing with the principle that Trident won't be the answer to all the problems, but those aren't new costs though are they? They're existing costs that are already being funded through the existing budget which Soctland has. So there isn't a shortfall of £10billion to be made up. The argument is that any shortfall in money that currently comes from Britain's net contribution to the Scottish budget would be covered by not funding Trident.

 

If I were asked now would I want out of Europe, I would say a resounding YES.
I want to know All the facts tho, how much do we put in, what do we get out. How are those figures in correlation to the rest of Europe etc stc. The truth tho no bull and from there I could make an informed judgement.
Hopefully that would still be out !
You have the chance to vote, based on economical facts as long as everyone tells you the truth, you cant go wrong
Good luck.

 

Pride can't make it work though.

I can only wish you luck if you get what you want.

 

The NHS in Scotland costs £10billion to run (rounded 2013 figures), with around 2.6million workers in Scotland. Just to fund the NHS will cost each worker £4k a year in tax. The average wage in Scotland is £28k apparently, so that is a 14% tax *just* to pay for the NHS.

And another 3% for the university system. So thats a basic tax rate of 17% for the NHS and Higher Education. Add in Schools, Council services, defence, police, fire, etc and thats going to be a serious rate of tax for everyone.

Either that, or we are going to end up subsidising it.

 

Thanks for that Ponty. Very much appreciated mate.
TBH Can you blame me for not wanting to be governed by this lot?



Utter scumbags, each and everyone of them.

 

You wouldn't get any 'facts' though

 

Income tax only accounts for about a quarter of government income. You're ignoring corporation tax, VAT, business rates, excise duty, SDLT etc. But don't get me wrong, progressive social policies require progressive taxation.

I'm not saying that there aren't concerns for Scotland in balancing the budget. And I'm not advocation a 'yes' vote. But this is an example of the over-simplified arguments of complex issues that are being presented, which make it impossible to reach an informed decision.

 

You'll get no argument from me on that ian. That picture alone turns my stomach.

 

You are correct, I am simplifying things significantly, but given the rate of national debt (for most nations) I'm not entirely sure that anyone in power can actually make the sums add up.

 

I suppose the 'yes' votes' point is that they'd rather get in to debt spending their money on social justice rather than foreign wars. But I agree I think there would be some realities to the vision. The saddest part for me is how polarising the issue has become, Scots on both sides want the best for Scotland, they just disagree on how to achieve it. And as a consequence the debate has become ridiculous. Threats and half-truths, bluff and thunder.

 

I suppose its the same for all of us. Unfortunately how we want the country to be run rarely matches how those in charge want it to be run.

I have a theory that countries develop through roughly the same stages as people. So "young" countries seem to have a lot of wars like kids fighting and teenagers exerting their independence. England and Scotland have been together for a long time, so we are like a couple of pensioners married for 50 years who at times cannot stand each other, but can't be without each other either.

 

I'm quarter Scottish. My grandad was from Coatbridge. Met my grandma when he was working in South Yorkshire, got a job in the steelworks and stayed. Started going to Oakwell and became a lifelong Barnsley fan. Took me to my first game. So I guess I'm formed from part of the union, and I hope they vote no to independence. At the same time my grandad was related to James Maxton who started the socialist movement in Scotland so I can understand (given the prevailing policies of Westminster) why plenty see this as an opportunity to form a more progressive nation.