Who Does Trotta Replace?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Red Rain, Nov 4, 2014.

  1. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Most people saw our relegation last season as a disaster. However, it has given us the time to rebuild a team capable of eventually holding its own in the second tier without the constant pressure that was exerted by the fear of relegation. It was that fear, along with the lack of adequate funds that encouraged the constant fixing of short term problems with panic signings and it is the inevitable relegation that has allowed us to rebuild with players with a rosy future, rather than a distinguished past. If Marcello Trotta is the type of player that I hope he is, that is a latter day Trevor Aylott clone, then I think that he represents the final building block towards the establishment of the sound foundations of a good team.

    Why do I say that? Well, it is my view that he will provide the balance that has been missing from the team, and which has meant that the building work that we would all have wished would have been completed by August has continued well into the season. That absence of balance has meant that we have had to play three tall defenders, because there was no height further forward that could strengthen us against defensive free kicks and corners. It is a lack of balance that has forced us to pass the ball forward through midfield, risking losing it in bad field positions. The tactic was adopted, not because that was the way we wanted to play, or because our midfield and full backs were particularly suited to that way of playing. It was because hitting the ball long has been the fastest way to lose it, inviting pressure back upon a suspect defence.

    Trotta can potentially be our missing link, in the same way that Trevor Aylott glued together the Alan Clarke team, and allowed the disparate talents of Banks, Glavin and Barraclough to function as one. However, the fans are getting behind the current team and may be reluctant to see anyone replaced by an unproven newcomer. After all, we just won away at Sheffield United and Trotta may not be fully fit and he may not be the right type of player to glue the team together. The rest of this posting assumes that he is that player in order that I can make the points about team structure that I wish to make.
    I always argue on here that team structure should be based upon an identification of the team strengths (in order to place the strong players in a position where they are best able to make best use of their strengths for the good of the team) and weaknesses (in order to be better able to cover those weaknesses).

    Strengths

    In Cole and Williams we have the sort of pace that 3rd tier players find problems coping with.
    In Hourihane, we have a player with magic in his left foot. He has the ability to score from anywhere the vision to see a pass and the ability to deliver it.

    Weaknesses

    The team is young and particularly in the centre of midfield, it lack strength.
    In strengthening the centre of midfield, there has been a tendency to expose the full backs.
    The lack of height in the team has tended to unbalance it, creating pressure on the defence.

    In my view, Hourihane is very much like Butterfield. He has the same strengths (shooting, passing and vision) and the same weaknesses (lack of pace, weakness in the tackle and lack of defensive awareness). Keith Hill saw Butterfield’s strengths and decided to utilise them using a five man midfield and playing Jacob just behind the front man. I think that now we have a big man up front, we can use Connor in exactly the same way.

    I believe that we should utilise the pace of Williams and Cole by playing them wide. When we have possession, they would become part of a front 3 and would provide support for the centre forward by becoming narrower. Without the ball, they fall back into a five man midfield as the wide players with Hourihane at its point and Bailey and Berry behind to protect the centre of our defence.

    There is no real reason to have three tall defenders any more, except that Bree is not yet ready to play every week. For that reason, we may wish to continue with Cranie for a while, although ideally we would swap Ramage for a proper right back. Ramage has little pace and is poor with the ball at his feet. If you simply want someone to win headers, then Ramage is your man, but in my view we would have a better balance with Nyatanga and Cranie at the heart of our defence as both are better with the ball at their feet and I think that Nyatanga is getting back to the form he had when he was on loan from Bristol City.

    Unfortunately, this team leaves Winnall starting on the bench. I know that he is rapidly putting together a following amongst the fans, but I feel that it is for the best for team balance.
     
  2. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Well thought out as always and perhaps a medium term strategy. Having seen Cole in his last two games he looked like he could benefit from a rest as all young players need from time to time so. In the short term I would give use Coke as in impact sub rather than.a starter. Then rotate.
     
  3. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    With I think 4 goals in his last 6 games he's our main attacker goals wise so cannot be dropped.
     
  4. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    Agreed
     
  5. redarmychris

    redarmychris Well-Known Member

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    Craine and Nyatanga as a CB pairing has looked awful.
     
  6. Prince of Risborough

    Prince of Risborough Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember that Nyatanga, in his first spell, was on loan from Derby, not Bristol City.

    Well argued post but it's hard to drop Winnall. If he carries on improving he could be our 20 goals per season man, with Hourihane just behind him on maybe 15-20 goals. Nice to have an embarrassment of riches but we've been in this position before. Great LOOKING squad, poor selections on match day.

    That's why football managers get paid plenty of money I suppose. Getting that formula right is the key, and I think Danny will get it right with the resources that he has already. We are all expecting departures in January - I really hope that, just for once, nobody leaves. The good teams are made up of squads that have been together for some time. Half a season isn't long enough.

    Really looking forward to seeing this season pan out. If we can have a tilt at the top six the crowds will creep up and the belief will grow, day by day.
     
  7. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    Winnall could definately be like Cole and Houriane in being capable of scoring twenty goals at this level over a full season. Roll on the end of January because we could have bids for around half a dozen of our players from vultures in an higher league and with more money than us.
     
  8. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    A well thought out post. I think you do a dis-service to Ramage though as he isn't that much slower than Cranie and adds much more in terms of commitment and leadership. The impact of this, certainly in a young side, should not be underestimated IMHO.
     
  9. Whi

    Whitey Guest

    Butterfield - statistically - is the 5th best midfielder this season in the Championship... ;) But seriously, he's a lot better than he was when with us. Complete central midfielder now. Plays in a two, wins tackles, always harrassing the opposition as well as the talents he showed here. Amazing what regular games under a manager who trusts you can do. Big test at Derby tonight though.


    In terms of your other suggestions, I disagree on Ramage. He's better than you're giving him credit for. And I wouldn't drop our in form striker for a lad we've never seen.

    Very interesting and well thought out post though, as ever.
     
  10. DEETEE

    DEETEE Well-Known Member

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    Rampage.

    Wins headers. Wins challenges. Position ally normally very good. Does something called defending. I could give a toss if he can't thread a forty yard ball through the chuff of a gnat as long as he puts his body in the way making challenges tackles etc.

    Has balls like melons and never hides even when he ****s up.


    Crainie ... Doesn't dominate the defence and goes missing especially if there's a brute of a number 9... Ironically the best game I've seen him play for us was Saturday at right back.

    So I'm confused about your point.

    Midfield, agree it is a collection of young lads but they are growing into it and need just to pick up some more discipline defensively.

    Up front ... Winnall. A striker who has found his feet, has no fear, gives every game everything he has and is at the minute reaping the rewards. A striker the fans as a whole have been crying out for most the summer since COGs imminent but long winded departure..

    You want to bench him?

    Mental.
     
  11. Tyke_80

    Tyke_80 Well-Known Member

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    Now... do we play wingers on saturday in Williams and Cole with then Trotta (if available) and winnall? Maybe bring Abbott with Berry in middle, Hourihane on bench with Bree back at right back
     
  12. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Well thought out post but it's all about opinions and I for one didn't think we needed to be relegated to rebuild in fact we just needed the right manager to fit the club easier said than done I know but Danny may well have rebuilt us in the Championship who knows.

    Also this rebuilding is OK only if we can either hold on to the key players or use the funds we receive for them wisely a d keep the conveyor belt from the academy rolling.
    Just my opinion .
     
  13. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I have decided to delay making this posting until the day after the Burton game because I do not want to be seen as courting controversy, or indeed, be seen as being awkward simply for the sake of it. I am making the posting because I still see problems with the balance of the team that have not been resolved by the inclusion of Marcello Trotta.

    I thought that Burton had just about shaded the first half, and that we were grateful to Turnbull, first for turning a shot from his left around the post, and from the resulting corner, for a scrambling block from an unmarked header. Of course, the game was over soon afterwards, when two defensive errors allowed Winnall two chances which he took with great skill. The goals allowed us to play within ourselves, and the other goals that we scored slightly flattered us, and put a slant on the score line that I do not think Burton deserved.

    However, the game did not excite me. That may have been due to the poor crowd, or the lower league opposition. But it may also have been because of the way that we played. Frankly, I found all the keep ball somewhat boring, because much of the time, there was no ulterior motive for keeping the ball other than to waste time, or earlier in the game, to tire out our opponents. Speaking only for myself, I do not go to a football match to watch a team with a principle tactic of winning a game by tiring out the opposition. It is this that I found so unattractive about that Spanish and Barcelona way of winning and why I despaired when it was deemed by the football world that this was the way to go, just because they won a couple of trophies that way. Thank goodness that world football has generally decided that a different method should now prevail, now that Germany has restored the balance.

    So what was wrong with us yesterday? Why am I moaning on again about the lack of balance in the team, even after we have won 5-0?

    Well, because it is easier to take a balanced view after a good win, especially if it was a flattering win that leaves a lot to be desired. For a start, as good as Trotta’s first touch was, and as subtle as his short passes and flicks were, he is not the target man, the leader of the line that I had hoped to see. He was too keen to drop off the front line to receive the ball in areas that the strong running Williams has been able to exploit to such good effect in previous home games, depriving Williams of the space he has become used to. Some will hail this as good movement, but I see it as a failure to blend well into an existing team shape. Today, the inclusion of Trotta also meant the exclusion of Cole, which in fairness, many have been calling for. In my opinion, Cole is worth including in the team, even if his form drops below the highest levels. I believe this because his pace makes defenders nervous, and a nervous defensive line tends to drop back towards the safety of its own goal line. If it does not compact the midfield area, the deep defensive line gives its own midfield more space to cover, hence more room for the attacking midfield. It was noticeable today that our midfield found less space, and that our ability to get forward quickly was affected adversely.

    In my opinion, we were seeking a Grant Holt type, someone who we were linked with before he moved to Huddersfield, and who ran the line brilliantly in his last appearance at Oakwell with Wigan. Instead we have acquired a Mike Sheron, a clever player, but a player accustomed to a totally different role within team structure. In spite of Trotta’s height (6ft 2ins), it was Winnall who came back for defensive set pieces, and I cannot remember Trotta winning the ball in the air all game. Because he is not the type of player that I had hoped for, most of the benefits that I had expected in relation to team balance were missing.
    There were times in the first half when our four midfield players were struggling to cope with their four, times when I thought that we might need to abandon the diamond formation. That formation relies heavily on developing attacks through the full backs, and in spite of the praise for Cranie on here, I felt that he struggled at times to find a player ahead of him in space. He also lacked the wide player ahead of him that may have made his task easier because the diamond shape is so narrow. As a result, he repeatedly passed inside or backwards, and the chance to develop quick thrusting attacks was lost. There was little sign of the way that we used to get forward by utilising the quick, one touch passing style that so dominated our games under Wilson’s last tenure, a style of football that I absolutely adored, and which the fans compared to watching Brazil. One which had Paul Wilkinson to lead the line and act as a pivot around which we could build our attacks.

    The game was decided by Winnall’s first two goals, but observers should not be mistaken. The result flattered us, and may have been very different had Burton scored first, because then it would have been they that could have defended deep and played on the break, and we who would have struggled to break them down. In my opinion, we have not solved the problem of team shape, and Trotta may never be that man. I suggested in my original posting that Winnall was the one to leave out. In the light of today’s hat-trick, many will conclude, with some justification, that I do not know anything about this game. Nevertheless, I think that Cole’s cameo appearance also showed that he must also play in order to create a good balance. The question remains. For league games, where finishers may not be as forgiving as Burton’s were, how can we achieve a balanced team whilst including all of Winnall, Trotta and Cole.
     
  14. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    He's hardly played a first team game in ages so let him get upto speed first before making an assessment.
     
  15. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    Oh and a special mention for Bailey too please imo reads the game does the important stuff well. Very important player
     
  16. Pon

    Pontered Well-Known Member

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    I thought that in the first half Burton looked to have done thier homework on us. They pushed up on our fullbacks and stopped us playing. In the second you could see a change. Dudgeon and Crainie were playing much further up the pitch pushing their wide players back.

    Once we got to grips with the system they were playing things started to become a lot more fluid.
     
  17. Whi

    Whitey Guest

    Mate, it was his first game. Patience eh? Although, we did win 5-0 so I don't think he affected the balance adversely.



    No idea.




    I can. One header on halfway stands out in my mind. Great deft header it was, which found Dudgeon bombing up the left flank. Reminded me of Paul Wilkinson.




    Burton had a great free kick that hit the bar, and hit us on the break once from our own corner where Akins was denied at full stretch by Turnbull, who then blocked their effort from the resulting corner. Other than that, they hardly got out of their own half and when we had possession Burton had all ten outfield players in their own half. Which is when it is imperative in my opinion to work the ball well, move it around and tire out your opponent, create gaps etc. This was evidenced by our first and second goals where some good possession, some great hustling and good finishing saw us 2-0 up within a minute or so.




    I disagree and point to the Cole goal as an example of quick, one touch football. As for us not resembling the 'Brazil' era Wilson team, so what? I think folk need to get their head around the fact that times change and things move on. I want a successful Barnsley, I'm not arsed about em replicating what was the best period in our history. Small steps and all that.




    He came on against a tired and deflated Burton side who were a man down by then. After his recent exertions I felt a rest was in order. He was very poor at Bramall Lane. I expect him to feature regularly for us for the rest of the season, he's cup tied (along with the other loanees) now and his appearances so far for us suggest Danny rates him very highly. But it'll be horses for courses I imagine. I'm buzzing about the fact we've got Winnall, Cole, Trotta, Lita and Hemmings as options up front. Last season we had COG. And just COG.
     
  18. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Football is all about opinions and everybody's opinion is just as valid as mine, but can I just illustrate why I think that balance is important.

    John Hendry took over a team that had Ashley Ward as its leader, a player who was as good at leading the line as any that I have seen in a red shirt. His partner up front was Bruce Dyer, who was a good foil because he had qualities that were complementary to Ward's. The team had lost its midfield mentor (Redfearn) and we had replaced him with Van Der Laan and Richardson, neither of whom offered the drive that Redfearn gave us. We were desperate for a midfield player with attacking flair. That player was Craig Hignett. Hignett, Dyer and Ward played together just the once, the 7-1 victory over Huddersfield, and then Ward was sold.

    At that point, the situation was not lost. We had £4.5m in the bank from the sale of Ward, plenty of money to sign a replacement and develop the new stand. His replacement did not arrive until January when we spent £1.4m on Mike Sheron, a player as different from Ward as it is possible to get. The team struggled and Hendry was sacked. The first thing that Dave Bassett did when he was appointed to replace Hendry was to sign Neil Shipperley, instantly giving us back the balance that we lost when we bought Sheron. Shipperley did not have the subtle skills of Sheron. He was basically a big, strong honest lump, but he gave balance to the team that Sheron did not.

    You seem to think that I am harking back to past glories when I refer to Wilson's previous team at Oakwell. I am not. I am trying to learn from the successes that the club has enjoyed in the past, as well as from the mistakes that we have made. If a team is to be better than the sum of its parts, it must have balance as well as players whose skills complement rather than duplicate. I fail to see how Trotta's skill set will create balance or complement the skills that we already possess. My original posting laid out the skill set that I thought was important in the new acquisition, and by definition, the skill set that I was hoping Trotta possessed. Early days I know, but I found the most significant part of his performance was that he was left up for defensive set pieces. This suggests to me that he is not the player I had hoped for in my original posting, not because he does not have skills, because he clearly does, but because he does not have the right skills to balance the team.
     
  19. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Pushing up on the full backs is the standard tactic against a team that wants to play forward through midfield. We employed the self same tactic against Bristol City. When their keeper had the ball, Winnall and Cole split to mark the full backs and Williams pushed up on the centre backs. The basic idea of the tactic is to make the keeper kick. If the opposition has no-one capable of challenging the centre backs for the ball, it means that the defence are almost certain to regain possession. The answer is either to have variety, that is, be able to vary tactics by playing a leader up front who is capable of challenging for headers, or building patiently through midfield and forfeiting any chance of breaking quickly. I would prefer to see more variety. I get bored with keep ball and playing it slowly through midfield, sometimes going forward and sometimes backward. I pay my money not just to see my team win, but also to see plenty of penalty area action, which is at a premium in a modern game that has had much of its excitement removed through a Latinised interpretation of the rules.
     
  20. Whi

    Whitey Guest

    Perhaps Trotta remained forward so that we could hit him if needed, and thus it doesn't come straight back? I dunno. But he had 80 minutes or so. We won 5-0. He was involved in lots of good stuff. Very physical, good feet and decent in the air. I was very impressed with his first appearance for us and I think he offers us something different.

    Ashley Ward and Neil Shipperley are the two strikers I pick up front in my all time reds XI. If he's anything like either of them we're going up.
     

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