Rooney

Superb tonight and his goals were just icing on his performance. Lead the line and the team brilliantly tonight.

How he generates so much hatred is beyond me. Clearly people that don't know a lot about football that say he's overrated. Overpaid? Yes, like a ton of other sporting 'superstars' but not overrated.

Come on England.

 

Lead the team well - great striker's performance and took his goals well tonight

 

Good against the **** teams. **** against the good teams. Was ever thus. The story of Wayne Rooney. Flat track bully.

 

He reminded me of Winnall.

He played really well, as did the team. Full marks to both sides for getting up after being challenged and not rolling about on the floor like a fairy. Refreshing change.

 

I thought England played really well tonight. That third goal was sublime. The highlights didn't show how well we kept it in tight areas beforehand.

 

Unfortunately I tend to agree. Often under performs when it truly matters. That said, really can't knock him today, played really, really well

 

Nail on head. A very flawed international scoring record in my humble opinion.

 

Was interested as to why a scoring record could be flawed. So I had a look at the stats. I must say I was expecting Rooneys record to be a lot worse than say Bobby Charlton or Gary Lineker but there's not much that can be concluded about it really. All scored more goals against less fancied teams as you would expect. Lineker obviously scored more in World Cup finals but Rooney's tally in competitive matches is much better than Lineker or Charlton.
Unless it's just blind bias just what do you base your opinion on? ( not having a go - just wondered if I've missed something.

 

I was comparing his record at world cup finals against better teams. By flawed what I meant was that the majority of his goals have been scored against weak nations.

 

Currently our 3rd best striker behind a fully fit Sturridge and Welbeck and yethe will never be dropped because apparently he's bought a world class tag off ebay

 

Currently our best player and soon to be our all time record goalscorer.
I wouldn't pay him in Green Shield stamps

 

Really? You're really saying that a player that has scored 46 goals at international level, has a flawed record.

My god, what next?

 

Rooney has scored goals against Holland, Argentina, Brazil, Croatia, Poland, Ukraine, Switzerland, Russia et al. Hardly sub-opposition.

Oh, and for the record - Charlton scored 4 times in 14 World Cup finals, Rooney has scored 1 in 11 - not too dissimilar. European Finals, 1 in 2 for Charlton, 5 in 6 for Rooney. Rooney has scored 34 competitive times for England, in 4993 minutes. Charlton scored 27 competitive goals in 5085 minutes.

Charlton never scored against Brazil once in his career.

 

That's the point isn't it? Comparing Rooney's record in major championship's against other good players. Isn't it a goal every 10 years against decent teams in the finals of competitive internationals.

Peter Crouch (no great shakes in anyone's opinion ) 22 goals in 42 games was castigated for scoring against crap teams but if he had Rooney's 100 caps would probably also have broken Charlton's record and has exactly the same goalscoring record as Wayne in World Cup finals

I'm not into Rooney bashing. He Is the best of a bad bunch but a long way off the top rung of international players probably at the top of the 3rd level of international players. The divergent careers of him and Ronaldo who were players with the world at their feet at Man U is sorry reading. One went on to be a truly world class player the other never really developed.

I think Paul Scholes analysis of him peaking a couple of years ago in domestic terms was right in England terms he peaked when he was 18.

 

No that's not quite the point I was making, my point is that he doesn't score against the better teams and in the WC finals.

 

I think the flat track bully analogy has some merit. I don't think he can dominate a game against top teams like he did in his early career. But to be honest I don't think the records in terms of who Rooney and Charlton have scored against are that disimilar. Charlton scored 16 of his goals against the home nations, and 11 in games that England won by at least 7 goals. Certainly the latter is a lot of padding in his total. Added to which Charlton was playing for a better team and at a time without substitutes (think that's right??) so whould have had much more game time.

Rooney's record in tournaments has been poor (although to be fair to him he wasn't fit in two of them and the fact that we played an injured player says how important he is perceived to be to us).

The one thing I would say about Rooney is that he never finds an excuse to miss an international and always gives 100%, unlike many other players.

 

How far do we want to go back, Jimmy Greaves i'm told was a born scorer and his stats are much better per game but but but again scored many goals against "lesser" nations.
He didn't take pens mind

 

In that case then Winnall's hattrick against Burton doesn't really count. It's not like the player chooses who he plays against, he just has to do a good job week in, week out

 

But that's always going to be the case, because most of our games are in qualifying, where as first seeds, we rarely get a top opponent.

I challenge you to name any strikers with a lot of international goals who've got most of them against the world's top 10.

For the record, I generally feel that Rooney doesn't play anywhere near as well for England as Man Utd (last night was undoubtedly an exception), but I don't think his record can legitimately be questioned really.

 

Bobby Charlton was a midfielder.

Shearer, Lineker, Greaves, Taylor, Lofthouse et al scored goals against teams who were allowed to tackle. The game is so weighted in favour of forwards nowadays that even mediocre players (Peter Crouch for example) have good international goal scoring records.

Rooney averages out as a good player. On form, he's great. Off it, he's a liability. Man marked, he may as well go home.