these plans to restrict none EU players in Prem

3/11, 2/11 and 3/11 is not "mainly English"

 

There were arguably more important foreigners in each of those sides. You've basically just named some English players. Of course English sides are going to have integral players that are English. You've not supported an argument for anything really though.

 

I'm 100% behind the idea of increasing the number of English players playing at the top level, but i'm not convinced this is the way to do it.

If "only the best" players are allowed in (however that is decided), then only the top clubs in England will realistically be able to attract these players. The top clubs is really where the problem lies, but they will be the ones with enough money/reputation/European football to attract the "best players" and therefore the young English lads coming through the best academies in the country will still face the same battle to get some first team football without going out on loan.

This new system to me looks like it will mainly effect the middle/bottom half of the prem teams. The sort of teams that have a budget to spend on players and either want to escape relegation or push into the top half of the table. This budget goes a lot further when spent on foreign players and although they may be seen as "average" foreign players, they can become integral to the team that has signed them. I don't really have a problem with these foreign players playing in the top league as other people have said if a young English player is good enough they will get a chance at some point at a team like Stoke or Aston Villa. What we need to do is get young English players playing in the Europa League and Champions League. I can't see this new plan making that happen.

 

The only way to solve the problem is to ban loans. Force players to choose carefully who they sign for.

 

But if we ban loans will that really affect the top clubs?

 

But he wouldn't be signed by a Premier League club and that's where the problems lie. If he was, he wouldn't get in the team. The vast majority of players at our level are from the home nations. We currently have two in our squad who aren't: M'Voto from France and Lalkovic from Slovakia. Both countries in the EU. We have no players from outside the EU. You could probably count on your two hands the number of players from outside the EU we've had in our entire existence - half of them signed by Simon Davey I would imagine. So, if once a decade or so we sign someone like Mostto, who fulfils the criteria I set out above, what problem is it going to cause? We'll still have 25 lads on the books from England, he won't be taking the place of an English lad in a Premier League team who could get in the England squad, and a player with a number of international caps, supposedly one of the best in his country, get's the chance of a lifetime to try his luck in the English leagues. Who loses out?

Fill the Premier league with average foreign players and it's the English national team that loses out.

 

Only thing a supporter of English/British football can do is refuse to subscribe to Sky/BT. I assure you the new TV deal ain't going to improve the problem.

 

I'm going to make a more radical suggestion to sort out the issues with the England team. The FA centrally contracts the best English players and puts them in a team in the Premier League, with an English manager. Instead of putting together a bunch of players that play for 7-8 clubs and expecting them to form a team after 3-4 training sessions every 3 months, they play and train together throughout the season. If they get it right, they could (*should*) qualify for Europe and play against the top teams.

Its no surprise that the most successful European teams (Germany, Spain, etc) have a core group of players that play for 1-2 clubs.

 

Yeah! People going to other countries in the EU to work!

 

So your telling me that between 2005 to now John Terry, Frank Lampard and Ashley Cole havent been Chelsea's most important players? Gerrard and Carragher havent carried Liverpool? Rooney, Scholes and Carrick havent been integral to United?

Also, the argument that the English side has got progressively worse since the PL's inception is null and void. At least in the PL's era we, except for the odd disaster, actually qualify for finals, which wasnt always the case.


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Not completely discounting your argument, but Drogba was IMO the player that turned Chelsea from a nearly team into winners. I would guess he would have struggled to get in with the new rules? Not exactly a world beater back then.

We can talk about Terry, Gerrard, Lampard etc all we want, but we can't talk about the players that didn't make it as they never got a chance. Who would have thought Harry Kane would be such a success? For the first couple of months of the season he had to sit on the bench and watch Soldado try and be a footballer...

 

All this 'the best players', who decides who the best are. And surely 'the best' will only play for 'the best' clubs. Can't imagine the likes of Messi, Toure, Neymar etc rocking up at Hull or Palace for example. It's making the playing field even less level. Surely they've to say, in your 23 man squad (if they still even do that in the PL) you need to have a minimum of 12 British (and I suppose Irish) players, and a percentage of them under the age of 23, say 5 players for example. I suppose the same could go for the overseas players, a max of 11 in the 23 man squad with say, at least 3 under the age of 23.

 

Your right about Kane and even Bale had to wait for suspensions and injuries to be given a real go. However, I'd put that more down to poor management at the club. I think what does need urgent action is the lack of top English coaches. Not just for the England job, but for the top clubs in the country. The likes of mourinho doesnt care the nationality of his players as he's usually only at a club for 4 years but I think English managers are more likely to want to build a side on a predominantly English base to the side.


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Also, would foreign players coming through Arsenal or Chelsea's or Citys academy be deemed home grown?


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You're right that not spotting the potential of Kane is poor management, regardless of his nationality. I'm not sure even the English managers give a toss about the England team these days. They are always a couple of results away from the sack and wont put a young English player in their team if they think some 28 year old Spanish guy is going to pick them up more points.

Making it as hard as possible for young English players to come through at the top with the theory that "if they're good enough they'll make it" is just not the way forward. Some players are late developers and miss out on valuable experience at their most impressionable age. We need to make it as easy as possible for young English players to get experience as early as possible at top clubs playing in Europe and we will reap the rewards.

The FA need to come up with a set of rules that can't be wriggled out of by a ridiculous amount of money.

I'm rambling on now, but Scott Sinclair just popped into my head. Who knows how good he would be now if he hadn't rotted in City's reserves for the last 2 years? All to fulfil a home grown quota with no intention of playing or developing him.

 

But with players the quality of Scott Sinclair, they are never going to be more than average PL players so enforcing clubs to have players of this calibre is just going to weaken the quality of the league. Id argue that (with the exception of the later rounds of the CL) the level of football in the PL is higher than in European games.


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That's sort of my whole point though. I would agree now that Sinclair is an average player, but we will never know if he would have been any better if he had the opportunity when he needed it. I remember seeing Kane on loan at Milwall and thinking he was a decent Championship player, but nothing more. If he was still in Spurs reserve team he may have never made it and nobody would even have a clue what we had missed out on. How many other players are we missing out on because they don't get a chance?

I agree that the prem is right up there with the best in the world, but not as a result of English players.

I don't know if you follow sky sports on twitter? but about 30 minutes ago they tweeted a graph of the number of home grown players in premiership squads. It was pretty much the league table in reverse. Chelsea at the bottom with 3, Burnley top with 19.

 

But if the top teams were forced into having English players who are nowhere near the level of some foreign players that would severely weaken the standard of the league and in turn, the best young English players lose the experience of playing against the top, top players of the world game week in week out. Look at it on the flip side, had this idea been implemented 20 years ago, do you think Lampard and Gerrard and co been better players because they were playing against Lee Hendrie and Lee Carsley or because they were playing Vieira and Alonso etc?


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Lampard and Gerrard are average players in the World standings, they are not and never have been the best in the World, neither one could get ap[lace in , Barcelona,Real Madrid,Bayern Munich,PSG etc .

 

Both would have walked in and been the main player at any of those clubs 6-7 years ago, particularly Gerrard. There is absolutely no question about that.


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