these plans to restrict none EU players in Prem

Erm No they would not mate. They were too scared to try it, too cosy in the Prem getting laudedfor being average.
Yet now they are old they want to try new things !

 

They definitely would have. At the time they were in their prime English clubs were dominating Europe and those two were at the forefront of why their sides were so successful. Why would they have left to go to Bayern or Madrid who were nowhere to be seen for major honours? If theyd have done that it would have been purely for money and we'd be calling them greedy ****s.


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How old are you ? Can you remember football before the Premiership ?
Really interested to know , please.

Also just which period of time (when they were in their prime ) did English clubs dominate Europe ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Cup_and_UEFA_Champions_League_finals

 

Neither Lampard or Gerrard were truly world class. Half decent internationals about the level of Trevor Brooking but just hyped beyond hype. 6/7 years ago Javi and Iniesta were in their prime now they are world class players.

 

Bayern and Madrid didn't want them. Neither did Barca. Any opinion on why that was?

 

Madrid tried to sign Gerrard on several occasions, sure I'll be able to find links to it if your interested?

And I'd say the two or three years on trot when 3 of the 4 semi finalist were English and at least one English club was in 7 of 8 finals between 2005-2012 was pretty dominating and only a good AC Milan and the great Barca team were able to compete with.


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If Madrid really wanted him they'd have signed him. No links to media gossip will prove otherwise.

 

Would they? They were awful 6-7 years ago and even the money Chelsea were chucking about couldnt lure him. Pretty sure it was a link to the then president of Madrid saying they were desperate to sign him several times but he wouldnt go. Zidane also stated Gerrard was the best player in the world at that point but now you've had your say that is null and void.


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Platitudes dear boy, don't be so naive. I prefer to believe what my eyes tell me and Gerrard has never been the best player in the world. Do you think it's fact because Zidane happened to say it once? Pele once had El Hadj Diouf in his all time 50 greatest players.

 

Yes but not in the same way. It will force them to be much more selective about who they sign as they will know that they can't just sign dozens of players and farm them out to lower league clubs for them to develop and then send back. It will also force the players to be more selective too with them having to decide to either sign for man utd and rot in the reserves without developing or sign for Sunderland and actually play. The result of that is that better players sign for smaller teams making a more competitive league and meaning more upcoming players are playing at a higher level

 

Lampard and Gerrard are statistical outliers. There are always going to be one or 2 players per generation who will be very good at a young age and able to force their way into a good team. However, they are anomalies and let's not forget Gerrard and Lampard came through 15 years ago, at a time when there was less reliance on quick fix imports and more of a tendency to persevere with English youngsters.

Other players take time to reach their potential. However, given the money in the Premiership clubs are not inclined to give players the time to grow and mature when they can buy the finished article from overseas and slot them straight in. The English player is simply loaned out to a lower down club where they are exposed to worse coaching methods, worse opposition and a sense of failure and disillusionment.

This prevents their potential being realised and they will mill about on a few loans before being sold on to a championship club. If they are lucky they will grind their way back to the top, but their full potential will remain untapped due to them having to take years to gain exposure at the top level. See Trippier for a good example, or any of Chelsea's young English players who get farmed out constantly. Josh McEachran was meant to be the next big thing in midfield for England a few years back. Where is he now? On loan at Vitesse, his 5th loan club by the age of 22.

Those that do break through at a later date tend to do so only by luck of circumstance. Ryan Mason and Harry Kane were only given extended runs in the first team because the big money foreign signings Tottenham made turned out to be *****. Prior to this season their careers were following the well trodden path of multiple loans to lower league teams with a transfer to a championship team to follow.

So what's the answer? Something like restricting teams to only signing a limited number of foreign players over the age of say 24 each season would force teams to look at blooding their youngsters more. However such a restriction would presumably be a restraint of trade and unenforceable. Other than something like this I don't see how we can change things.

Arguments about the quality of opposition being good for the national team just aren't true. That opposition is what is keeping English players from developing fully. Look at Germany and Spain - the leagues aren't as "strong" as the Premier League but they outperform us in major tournaments. Why is that? The majority of players in their leagues are domestic and have been given the appropriate chances to break through. The same is true of France - their league is pants but their national team is better than ours.

 

The irony is, the influx of foreign players hasn't even helped the clubs who have signed them. Before the European ban in the mid 80s we used to win the European Cup all the time with home grown players. 8 out of 9 victories between 77 and 84 by 3 different clubs. Only 1 player from outside the British isles represented any of the English clubs in those finals - Bruce Grobbelaar for Liverpool in 84. Since our reinstatement, the advent of the premier League and the influx of foreign players we've won it just 4 times.

You're lucky if you get 3 or 4 English players in an English team's Champions League team these days. When Barcelona beat Man Utd in the 2011 there were 7 Spaniards in their starting 11. A further 4 more on the bench. Man Utd started 3 Englishmen with 3 more on the bench. When Bayern Munich beat Borussia Dortmund in 2013, 12 of the starting 22 were German. In the all Spanish final last season 17 of the two squads were Spanish.

For the second consecutive season there are no English teams in the quarter finals of the Champions League. Who is getting it right? England, whose clubs fill their teams with foreigners, but our national team is pretty much a shambles at major finals and our domestic clubs are now struggling in Europe despite spending the most on wages. Or Germany and Spain, the last two world cup winners, the European Championship winners, winners of 3 of the last 4 Champions League finals, 6 of the last 8 finalists, who domestic teams keep a core squad of players from their nation supplemented by just a few of the best foreigners?

 

It's threads like this where I miss Hemmsy.

 

Xavi and Iniesta also called him the best they have faced, as too did Kaka I think. Fergie and Mourinho, the greatest ever and greatest modern day managers have both been desperate to sign him on more than one occasion but yeh your right, hes not very good.


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I agree with that but the way its being made out atm we are producing nobody of this kind of high quality anymore which is not the case. I actually think we have a much stronger pool of players now than we did 'the golden generation'. The likes of Stones, Shaw, Barkley, Sterling along with Wilshere if he sorts himself out and maybe Kane if he carries on all have the ability to be truly world class. All of who'm have broke through in the last few years and get regular game time so it shows if they are good enough they get the chance. I'd rather have 50 English players playing in a top quality PL who are getting regular games on merit rather than 200 who are only there because foreign players are banned.


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They also said Scholes was, go figure. And even if they did it's only opinion, I'm sure there'll be plenty of professional footballers out there who'd pick other players. Fergie signed some right duds too so I could flippantly state that his opinion isn't gospel.

Desperate to sign him? Where are you getting this sensationalism from?

And where have I said he's not very good? I've said he has never been the best in the world. So more sensationalism from you.

I'll stick to my opinion thanks based on what I've seen with my own eyes over the 15yrs of his career. Very good PL player, bang average on the world stage.

 

Non of the England players at that time replicated their club form for the national side (apart from maybe Cole) because, imo as I mentioned before, we have continually employed totally inept managers who refused to make big decisions, the biggest of which was the fact Gerrard and Lampard could not play together in a 2 man midfield, they were too alike. Both were sensational in Europe for their club sides (and 9 times out of 10 the CL is much higher standard than international games) when being played in a proper system rather than SGE making sure every big name he had got a game.


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the premiership and the influx of foreigners has without doubt affected our national team,managers have struggled to cobble a side together at times,even having to go to the championship for players.A national side capable of doing something on the world stage needs to pool its players from the top 4 0r 5 teams,not from the top 40.