Miliband

I've just seen the speech from Labour's glorious leader and him proclaiming in no uncertain terms that he and the Labour party will be doing absolutely no deals with the SNP.
Preferring to have a Tory Government instead.

What are you guys thoughts on this?

My own thoughts are " What a fkn idiot this guy is " Little wonder Labour are going nowhere.

 

I think that the deal has already been done.

 

While the election is still live they will all talk has independently.

 

I agree with you mate. But to make such sweeping statements as he did is just gonna make him look so stupid should he have to ask for SNP help to enter No10.

Kinda weakens his bargaining powers.

All the better for the SNP though.

 

Clue came weeks ago, when Nicola said that all that she wanted was a free vote on Trident.

 

Yeah maybe mate.

Bairns not bombs.

I certainly know where I'd want any 10billion pounds spent. Not that 10b would be spent on bairns but you know what I mean.

 

Totally agree

It's stupid. Surely if it's a coalition with the SNP or the Tories he'd rather the former?! Unless Ed's happy with a minority government he'll have to go in with the SNP or UKIP...

And this façade both Tories and Labour are keeping up about winning a majority is tiresome.

 

As I see it AI, he has no choice but to adopt this stance at the moment. He knows Labour are in trouble in Scotland, and to say at this stage he'd do deals would be like saying "It's OK for you (the Scottish electorate) to vote SNP instead of Labour". At this stage he has to play for a majority, but even short of that, for the maximum number of Labour MP's he can secure in Scotland. If, as seems likely, he doesn't get a majority, all bets are off. He'll then have to consider the best way forward.

Here's a thing though. Maybe, just maybe, he is a man of principle. He doesn't believe in the breakup of the Union, so he has been at pains to distance himself from the SNP. That's despite the fact that most would say being open to their advances would increase his chances of becoming prime minister. He doesn't believe Trident should be scrapped in the current geopolitical climate, so again he stands away from SNP. Even though.....etc, etc. He doesn't believe we should risk exiting Europe, so he hasn't made the same referendum offer as Cameron (who also doesn't believe we should exit Europe) even though it could well buy him more votes from those who'd like to have a say in this. Whether you agree with Miliband on these issues is by the way. But I think you can argue that he's put three principles above his own short term interests.

The Tory press have (as is customary) slighted and ridiculed Miliband since the day he became leader. It's no surprise then that on most of his media appearances in this campaign (I didn't see last night's) he has looked and sounded better than the image the Tories would like you to believe. He even (to my eyes, anyway) got the better of Boris on "Marr" last Sunday.

I'm not so naive as to ignore the possibility that he could change his stance on some of these things post-election - Nick Clegg has taught us to be wary in that regard. But at the moment I'm willing to give him the chance to live up to his word. A final consideration is that formal deal or not, it's surely unlikely that Nicola Sturgeon's party would vote down his Queen's speech and give the Tories another bite of the cherry?

 

It's the right political move and puts the ball firmly in the hands of the Scottish voters who find themselves both powerful and powerless at the same time. The message is clearly vote SNP and you are by proxy voting to retain the conservatives as the party in charge of the Union you voted to remain part of. This message is understood clearly by the right wing press so the Sun in Scotland 'supports' the SNP knowing that every vote for the SNP achieves the real object of its sister paper of a Tory government in the UK which will continue its attack on the poor and the disabled.

 

The Tories and the Lib Dems are currently trying to frighten the life out of the electorate by claiming a vote for Labour will result in the country being governed by the Scottish National Party. It has become increasingly obvious that whichever party wins this election, they won't be able to form a majority government. Alliances with minority parties will have to be made. The Tories are taking every opportunity to tell us that Labour will form an alliance with the SNP and bow down to their demands, resulting in the union being ruled by a party that want out of it, who are only interested in policies that benefit Scotland.

That claim in itself is ridiculous, a strong UK means a strong Scotland, and the SNP will not be attempting to **** the rest of us over for the benfit of those north of the border. But the real crux of the matter is the SNP themselves have ruled out a coalition with any party, including Labour, and will approach the next parliament by tackling each issue separately. They won't simply back the majority party, they'll tackle policies on a vote by vote basis. Even if Miliband wanted a coalition with the SNP, they wouldn't give him one, so he's not promising anything new, he's not cutting his nose off to spite his face, he's simply distancing his party from the accusations put about by the Tories and allaying the fears of voters in England.

The reality of the situation is that Labour and the SNP agree on many issues. The SNP will back many Labour policies without the need for a coalition. There are differences, particularly on defence, but the future of Trident has already been decided. Labour wouldn't need the SNP to get the policy through parliament, it's already been passed. They would have to take a vote to parliament to stop it progressing and by promising no deals and no coalition with the SNP they are simply reassuring voters that isn't going to happen. Any other matters on defence that the SNP may vote against will actually be voted for by the Tories. The Tories may wish to do anything in their power to bring down a fragile Labour government, but they're not about to vote against the government on matters of defence. They'd never live it down and their vote would collapse at the next election.

So no, Miliband isn't a ******* idiot, he's a canny bloke.

 

No Jimmy the message is clearly, Vote SNP and give Scotland a voice in Westminster which would be louder than ever before. Selfish I know but SNP will do what no other party will do and that is put Scotland first.

 

Only the voice won't be louder it will be drowned out by those of the right who will be governing you. Powerful and powerless. Interesting. Should have taken independence when you had the chance.

 

Well I voted for Independence as you probably know but far too many bought the lies and deceit of the Tories and dare I say it the Labour party, and we now all see the huge error which was made by delivering a vote to remain.

 

If I were Scottish I would have voted for independence and be a supporter of the SNP (I met wee Jimmy Krankie a couple of weeks ago and she's an impressive woman) but in the short term I would vote instrumentally looking at the broader picture and vote tactically. It'll serve little purpose nor help the nationalists long term goals to have a very hostile party they have little common ground with looking over their shoulders.

 

My thoughts are that he'll say whatever he thinks the audience wants to hear.

When it comes own to the nitty gritty he'll talk to the SNP no worries.

 

Speaking of lies and deceit...

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/full-fiscal-autonomy-for-dummies.html

It's very in depth, but I urge you to read it.

 

Spot on. Added to which Orsenkhat's point that the SNP voters won't forgive the SNP if they cause a Labour government to collapse and let the Tories back in.

He's played it very well IMO, and has been excellent in the past couple of weeks. For the first time in my life I will be voting for another party in a general election, but that's nothing to do with Ed Miliband. He has taken the party as left as possible and there is a genuine dividing line between the parties which wouldn't have existed under another leader. I've just got to the point that I think we need a more radical approach to achieve a more equal, fairer society. I think the best chance of achieving that under the current flawed system is with an alliance on the progressive left, which is consistent with the views that most people have in voting Labour, SNP, Greens and Plaid Cymru. And once upon a time the Lib Dems. The problem with now is that Labour will always be in thrall to the marginal seats where progressive left policies don't play well.

I just wish we had proportional representation which would make it far easier for people to vote in what they actually believe in. Or at the least AV so everything ticking the SNP box could also tick the Labour box next to make it clear they don't want a Tory government.

 

Interesting point that - lets make the assumption that now we are facing the second coalition government and rising influence of minority parties the arguement for the first past post systems begins to look shakier than Shakin Stevens on a bone shaker drinking a milk shake on shaky street.

There's the very real proposition that UKIP could get twice the votes of the SNP and 1/10th the MP's and the greens half the votes and 1/60th the MP's.

At this point proportional representation becomes quite compelling.

 

I can't really see how first past the post can continue to exist, but people turned down the chance of AV which, although a poor compromise on PR, was the natural stepping stone. Can't see Labour or the Conservatives putting electoral reform back on the agenda anytime soon.

 

6 months ago the people of Scotland voted against independence. Whilst those same people are now voting for the SNP in their droves it can't be assumed that they are doing so because they have changed their minds on the Independence question.
My guess is that the Scots know that with declining oil revenues they will get the best deal by staying in the UK and holding the balance of power after the election.
However any agreement between Miliband and Sturgeon will be political suicide for Miliband.