Europe referendum 2016 ...in or out folks?

Out.

No benefit in being in. Huge opportunities in exiting.

 

You know there are benefits of being in so don't pretend there aren't. If you were honest and admitted the benefits but put forward the argument that the benefits of being out outright those of being in then your argument would have a lot more validity than at present where you are just pretending there isn't a single benefit to being in. All it does is makes you seem bitter and that you have an agenda. It also makes me disbelieve everything you say as I cannot trust any of your facts when you are lying and saying there isn't a single benefit of being in

 

Lats be honest! How many British folk would want to work with Whitey ? The foreigners are OK , they dont have to listen and understand him waffling on !!

 

A Massive "In" from me.

Lets us not kid ourselves, if we left the EU then our Tory overlords would repeal or erode many of the benefits for the working man coming from the EU and with only toothless unions to fight against them we could all face a bleaker future. Repeal the working time directive and we could all find ourselves having to work 50+ hour weeks or be shown the door. We already know they want rid of the Human Rights convention, how many other of our rights could we lose if we go out...

TBH I might be biased as I would much rather trust the faceless bureaucrats and MEPs in Brussels than the faceless bureaucrats and MPs in Westminster...

 

I genuinely believe that there are no longer any benefits in being in the EU. The benefit used to be access to free trade with European members. We would still have access to free trade with EU nations, probably by being a part of the European Free Trade Association (as do Switzerland, Iceland and Norway) although other options exist.

I'm sorry that it appears to you that I am coming across as bitter - and I feel it is unfair of you to call me a liar. Do I have an agenda? Well, I suppose I do. Since the whole question of EU membership has come to the forefront I have done a lot of research into the subject and I have been convinced in the case for a Brexit. I have become quite passionate about the opportunity that is being presented to the British people and I am worried that there will be a concerted effort by the "Yes" campaign to unduly scare the public into remaining an EU member. I guess I am just trying to play my small part in helping raise awareness so that voters can make an informed judgement and if, after becoming fully informed of the facts, they still wish to remain a member of the EU then that's fine by me - that's democracy.

If you can't trust any of my facts then I would encourage you to take a look yourself by following the links in my signature. I would be happy to direct you to further information if you wish.

Just one request. Please don't call me a liar - I am not. You don't know me. Those who do: my friends and colleagues have often used the words "high integrity" when describing my character.

 

Out. I spent all my working life in the steel industry. The working time directive was ignored and we were never on a level playing field with the industry in other european country's ie energy, subsidies health and safety. We were being strangled by Europe.

 

Out

 

OUT.

I'm with Tony Benn on the EU.

It is run for the benefit of politicians, the banks and corporations - not individuals.

It's undemocratic and has as much guilt for the situation in Ukraine as Putin has.

The notion that European countries will stop trading with us if we leave stretches credulity to breaking point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

This ^^^^

The way the EU has hung Greece out to dry. The way we expect the French to police our borders because Calais is not a French problem it's one for the UK as none of the migrants in Calais are clamouring to stay in France. If the French started allowing them across the channel we'd have the same problem as Italy and Greece and we're by and large ignoring the issue there. The way that Luxembourg has structured it's tax rules to allow the likes of Amazon to export their profits and thereby import austerity economics to the UK's public services.

The EU is nothing like a Union - it can only work if every member state has common welfare benefits, health services and taxation so wherever your job takes you across Europe your pay and benefits seamlessly follow you. We need to share a common currency and leave economic policy to an EU wide body not national Parliaments which is the issue with the Euro currently as what works for Germany isn't necessarily the right medicine for the Greeks to follow and the way the Euro currency works locks in those conflicting demands. I'd sign up for a Europe like that but it won't happen and without it I fear it will never work so - OUT

 

In

 

That's why I said 'I think'. Because I know less than enough on the subject. But I do know that the amount of British people willing to work at my place at its lowest, most basic level is an issue. An issue fixed by European migrants in recent years. But if you're telling me that unskilled European migrants would still be able to come here to live/work, then I take back my previous assumption.

 

Some truth in there I suppose. Cheeky fcuker.

Was quite typical this morning when at 11:30am the factory paused work for a minutes silence in memory of the victims of the 7/7 bombings, and the only person in our department talking was an English manager on the phone, the ******* pleb. It was good to stand alongside muslim lads who respected and understood what the silence was about. Very British of them.

 

I would certainly be very wary of taking anything as fact from a source that is called 'Better Off Out'. If a website/group are as upfront as that regarding their agenda then it is unlikely they will provide a balanced view. And although I might not have phrased it in the way Supertyke has I think his point is a valid one - I can think of hardly any issues, particularly one as complex as Europe, that are so clear cut as to say that one side of the debate does not have a single benefit.

 

On balance in, I think.

Free market capitalism is a flawed system that transfers wealth from the poorest to the richest, and the EU is a system designed to further this system. But I think it is naïve in the extreme to think that a Britain outside of Europe would suddenly abandon neo-liberalism. If anything it would be even worse as trading with us would be more difficult. So how would we become more attractive, undercut others. How do you do that, reduce wages, working conditions, etc etc. Also the countries cited as being successes outside the EU have very different circumstances to us and have to abide by most of the EU terms anyway through their trade agreements. They just can't influence any of them.

The main advantage for me is the liberalising impact the EU has. Human rights, workers rights, access to justice, promotion of integration, free movement of people, peace. We end up with a Tory government more than half the time who are elected by a minority under first past the post - do I think for a second they would uphold these human and humane values without Europe? Nope.

The other point is the use of EU money in regeneration of the poorest areas (South Yorkshire being a prime example). If we left Europe and kept the money we pay in I firmly believe that governments of any colour would redirect it the poorest areas.

 

Big IN.

Holidays and travel and work in Europe are so easy.

 

Yes. When the Normans invaded, or was it the Vikings?

 

Or the Anglo Saxons, or the Romans, or the Celtic Tribes?

 

Out. If Cameron negotiates enough concessions I'd say in, but he won't so I'm not.

The CBI reckon Britain benefits by being in the EU to the tune of up to £78bn a year, and that leaving would hit GDP by around 2.2% - same as the last crash. Personally I think that the economic pitfalls are overstated. Audi, BMW and Mercedes would be lining up outside Merkel's office demanding free trade remains. The UK has a substantial trade deficit with the EU, so any taxes on our goods would be met with punishing taxes in the other direction.

The major issue would be the impact upon the city of London. London benefits hugely from being the main location for transactions involving the Euro. That business would head to Frankfurt. Banks are located in London because they know we'll give them a better deal. The EU's proposed financial transaction tax was knocked back by Britain. There's also the issue of our standing in the world. The US want us in the EU, and there's no arguing a block of 500 million people has more clout than a block of 65 million people. However it's daft to think Britain wouldn't be influential. It's also important to note that the emerging powerful economic nations aren't in Europe, they're elsewhere. Nigeria, Vietnam, Brazil - not Croatia, Bulgaria and Slovenia. Britain could negotiate its own deals with those countries, but again, a block of 500 million people negotiates from a far stronger position.

However, the reasons for staying in are almost all economic. How much is our sovereignty worth? Why does a trading union mean that they can tell us prisoners can vote? Or we can't deport terrorists like Abu Qatada? Or things like the common fisheries policy. How much is it worth to be able to make our own laws?

If Cameron negotiates terms where we can have sovereignty of our courts, have restrictions upon immigration, and remain in Europe for the financial benefits it brings to both sides then great. Sadly he won't, and I think it's worth trying to go it alone.

 

These issues are nothing to do with the EEC. They're the remit of the European Court of Human Rights which we signed up to in 1959 well before we joined the (then) Common Market. In total there are 47 member states of the Council of Europe far more than are in the EEC and it's membership of the EEC which will be the subject of the in/out referendum.

 

BreweryStander is quite right, the ECHC is nothing to with the EU, except that to be an EU member you have to be a signatory (If I remember rightly). It emerged after the War to protect against the massive violation of Human rights perpetrated by the Nazis.