Those who admire Dan Jarvis...

That just proves what a fecking idiot you are !!

 

I'd post a link to the interview but it's behind a paywall.

The only thing he really seemed to get riled about was cuts to the armed forces so I can see him being "Blue Labour".

 

that's your opinion and you of course are entitled to it.....however wrong you are about thereev and Lizzy baby too!

 

Disastrous for this country, excellent for his personal wealth ...

 

Jarvis has to be admired on this one.

He knows what a huge mess his mates like brown left and no doubt put his own feelings to one side for the good of the country and us all

 

That is a bit below the belt Mark. You said yourself on here last night that you posted an opinion and people didn't have to agree with you. I don't care who wins the leadership election but from what I can see Liz Kendall is a credible candidate and has a good chance of winning. I don't see how supporting her makes somebody an idiot. In my opinion, as an outsider, I think she is far more credible than Jeremy Corbyn, who if elected will make the Labour party unelectable - more so than they are at present.

 

Surrendering the argument that though mate. Would love to see some conviction politics from Labour. Have faith in progressive social justice. If you give up the argument on things like welfare you're destined to lose forever because everyone will then accept right wing rhetoric and vote accordingly.

 

Not just me then.

 

Completely agree but we've seen through the media that they dictate the narrative, not political parties or even the f.cking people.

You talk to past Labour voters and they've seemingly lurched right - UKIP votes, scrounger talk etc etc. As soon as Labour are seen to be voting against policies 'portrayed' to tackle this then they'll get shot to ****.

Not only that, as soon as Labour move left, it gives the Tories a chance to move a little left too (Living Wage for example) and it then takes a chunk out of Labour support too. We live in a Conservative country. We can talk about morals and conviction politics all we want but quite simply, if Labour do move to the left then we'll never see another Labour government. Ever.

 

That's only because of first past the post though. All policy aimed at a handful of marginals so we only get one version of the truth. Just think how close we seemingly were away from PR. We need an unholy alliance of right and left to demand electoral reform. Then a progressive left can make the case that everyone except the few is better off under social justice. Win the argument. Not Labour's cynical polling.

 

I understand what you're saying, but for me, you underestimate the strength of the anti-Conservative sentiment in this country.

Many of those who were seduced by UKIP's rhetoric on immigration were traditional Labour supporters who simply want to support the prospects of working people and make sure employment prospects in areas such as Barnsley aren't problematised by imported labour. Instead of standing up for these people, Labour have taken their vote for granted for decades now and constantly chase the middling 'floating voter', as that's where they believe elections are won and lost. But votes are lost, and will be in greater number should they continue on Harman's line, to the abstainers, the SNP, the Greens, and TUSC because of turning their back on their original values.

The obvious inequality being constructed by a priviliged, Eton/Oxbridge cabinet should be easy pickings for a Labour opposition, yet for some reason they think 'the Nation' want to be a part of it.

 

"You talk to past Labour voters and they've seemingly lurched right - "

On this I have to disagree - what 'traditional' Labour voters looked for has been *******ised first by Thatcher - self reliance, hard work - which she formulated into anti-union policies

Then by Blair/Brown - look after the poor/unfortunate - by making the welfare state a lifestyle choice for some, and open door immigration which has driven down wages and put strain on services in the very areas where the 'old Labour vote lives.


Whilst ever we treat politics so tribally and refuse to countenance ideas from whichever side we don't like then the majority suffer. And I'm sorry but relying on Labour to help the working class - forget it.
"

 

wibble

 

Absolute crap

 

At the last election the parties that gained the most were the ones offering something different. As another poster has rightly said, if you were a floating Tory and Labour offered nothing but confirmation the Tories were right you'd surely stick with them? Any other belief is illogical

 

He's a politician, anyone who admires him needs to give their head a shek. Shirley?

 

So - the Tories said more austerity, right?
They did get elected, didn't they? (Wish it weren't so)
It certainly isn't pretty (we can surely agree on that at least?)
It certainly appears that the public mood in England didn't regard Labour as able to be responsible enough on the economy.
The public mood in Scotland was that Labour weren't radical/progressive enough.
If you don't get elected you can't do anything.

But maybe you're still holding out for the revolution?
Where are Scargill and Derk Hatton when you need them?
Let's keep the Red[star] Flag flying here!

 

As I said earlier Gally, the welfare measures were flagged up in the Tory manifesto, and sufficient numbers voted for them to put their plans into action.

Harriet Harperson appears to have taken the view that given all that, opposition for the sake of it would send out the wrong message. Pick your battles, and all that?

For those that (understandably) couldn't swallow supporting the Tory measures, she suggested abstaining.