Nice One Cameron

we stand on the verge of financial hardship, and where the staff earn more than the employers

companies pay more wages = prices have to increase = vicious circle!!

 

Cloud cuckoo

 

well people are living longer - so it will get the grey population under control…

 

really???
i own a cafe, i pay currently 7.50/hr.
i have to increase that to £10/hr
my prices have to increase to cover this (or do you expect me to absorb this cost - meaning i get less pay - meaning i get less than my staff)
this will happen in other businesses (or they will just cut staff)
so the cost of what we buy either increases or we get poorer services or the quality drops..

 

I do think some of the money saved should be invested in helping companies with less than 50 employees. It makes sense to me and is in no way propping up capitalism where companies like Capita pay the CE millions but employ people who have to claim tax credits.

 

I have no doubt prices will have to go up in some businesses but if wages have gone up that's OK IMO.
No doubt your business is run on a tight ship with wages and reinvestment etc and you are capable of growing/maintaining the buisness.
But many businesses have been in positions to reward the workforce but have chosen to carry on paying the bottom workers minimum wage whilst lavishing senior management and executives etc whilst still in a profit and you can bet your bottom dollar they will put up their prices at the drop of a hat.

 

You would think they'd have to cut staff and thus unemployment will go up but that didn't happen when the minimum wage came in so we'll have to see.

 

Not an issue now they're unelectable for the next 5 years.......

 

Every party's unelectable for the next five years

 

Honestly, I think that if you can't run your business without paying people at least the living wage then you don't have a viable business. A business wouldn't be viable if you came out and said you could only keep on going if you paid people £1.50 an hour, and it's basically the same principle, only with a different arbitrary figure.

If prices have to increase to pay people more then so be it - your customers should be earning a bit more as well, after all. I for one am far more happy to pay a bit more and patronise businesses that I know pay their staff a fair wage.

 

Its a village café.

Where he already pays staff more than legally required. Thats excluding any employers contributions.

Unlike some national coffee chains.

And if prices go up because people earn more under a living wage then it really does defeat the object.

 

fair comment...that would stop a lot of these scroungers knocking out kids left right and centre as a means of income

hth

 

What is essentially a 33% increase in pay (i currently pay over the minimum wage at £7.50 to go upto £10.00/hr)
I employ 6 staff in a small village location.I have one business, I'm not a chain, my business is well run, but I can't charge £3 for a coffee, nor can I put my prices up by 33% to cover this.
I can't negotiate better deals with my suppliers as I do not have the economiesof scale of Starbucks or Costa so getting a reduction of raw materials isn't going to happen.
The tax man isn't going to reduce his bill by 33%, the gas and electricity companies won't, the water company won't, the PPL/PRS won't, the phone company won't, my insurance bill has grown by an average of 10% a year for the last 3 years so no joy there, the council will still want the business rates at the same cost, the tax on landfill waste for business keeps growing as does the waste bill.
The increased wage will also lead to an increase in other staff costs, NI and tax.
But I'm sure those that haven't owned their own business will not understand.

Those that do well know where I'm coming from

 

Oh forgot to mention that I also need a wage.

Oh and 60% of my customers are pensioners and will not see an increase in their money to cover the cost increases that will need to be passed on...

Bigger picture.

I'm not against the principal of the living wage, but against the 33% pay increase that small businesses are having to find

 

So essentially to employ six at 10 quid an hour they have their shifts reduced or two people get laid off...

 

So there's a valid argument against paying the living wage. Which leaves the state to continue to make up people's earnings to a level they can live on. Either that or working people live in poverty. Or the state must support small businesses.

No easy solution. Cutting tax credits at this stage should be an absolute no though, but this current government are forging ahead regardless.

 

My Dad told my Sister over 50 years years ago "Never trust a Tory".

 

I'd agree that smaller employers should get help

 

I think one or two on this thread are overly idealistic or just on a wind up.

The folk who don't work 'and knock kids out as a form of income' are very much fewer in numbers than the Tories would have you believe.

Around 85% of tax credits are/were paid to families where at least one person works full time. Another 12% to 'other working families' (which would mean anything from 16 to 30 hours, they class under 16 hours as not working and you can maybe claim job seekers etc. I kid thee not). Then there was some paid to folk on low wages with no kids, a comparatively small number. The total paid to families with kids where nobody worked is quoted less than 2% and that includes payments to single mums with young kids realistically preventing work, and families with kids (or parents) with severe disabilities. (Source - money journal forum, who cited publicly published gov.uk stats as their info source)

Tax credits are spoken about as though they are government help to assist businesses pay smaller wages. Maybe so, certainly the working element as opposed to the child element. But you can't scrap them before either giving the workers either a higher wage or tax relief. Neither have happened. The tax code has increased a little bit but universally, no further help for parents, and apparently full time workers on minimum wage are out of income tax altogether. Funny but by my maths, if minimum wage is 6.50, work say 40 hours a week for a year and that's over 13.5k. I haven't got a 1350 tax code, not sure about you. Think it's currently 1060. So if you only work 30 hours on minimum wage you would pay none. I'm not sure you could support a family on ten grand, that's before NI is taken off too.

Before the tax credit system came in, the amount of income tax working parents paid was reduced by giving them an adjusted tax code to allow them to earn more before paying tax. I know quite a lot of you believe that nobody should receive any kind of adjustment for having kids. Mainly those of you who don't have any, some who do I guess. But any economy has to have a decent birth rate otherwise there is no ongoing asset. There would in twenty years be no work force, no skills, no doctors, delivery drivers, and most importantly nobody paying tax.

Babies are the future lifeblood and heartbeat of the country. People, especially ones working hard, deserve a helping hand for bringing the future doctors, arse wipers, prime ministers and cleaners, tax payers, economy supporters, into the world if the wages they earn can't provide a proper living. Only have kids if you can afford them? Who can?

Our family gets nothing from the government for our kids, we do ok wage wise at the moment. More than ok, I guess we're quite lucky but me and the Mrs work hard for what we earn. She has a couple of part time jobs working round school runs and my shifts to save on any childcare costs.

But what's around the corner? What if I lose my job? Nobody had better have any kids unless they've got at least half a million in savings stashed away, you know, just in case. If kids were only born to parents who were 100% sure they could afford to support them for 18 years without any help at all, the birth rate and population would drop drastically and in twenty years everyone would look and sound like Boris Johnson and David Cameron, and nothing would get done as there'd be nobody to employ as their servants at their stately manors.

I'm not saying tax credits aren't flawed or that they should stay. But they should have been replaced, not scrapped with future plans of a living wage which would only serve to ruin small businesses, and folk in the bread lines, kids queuing at food banks for smart price corn flakes, in the interim.

Realistically my socialist tendencies would likely mean I'd end up worse off currently, but I want a fair system which makes it possible for all to live comfortably

 

Great post troff.