"We've sacked too many managers, so we shouldn't sack this one"

That's not actually what we're saying. If that was our position, it would be a poor argument, but there's a lot more to it than that.

What we're saying is that the policy of sacking managers the first time that things start to go wrong has not worked in the past. It has left us where we are now: just above the relegation zone in League 1, despite crowds that eclipse the majority in the division and, so we're told, a £million input per season from our owner. We've continued to sack managers and we've continued to get worse.

If continually sacking managers improved us year on year, we'd be all for it, it would be a sound policy, but look where we are. We're not in this position solely because of Lee Johnson. He didn't get us relegated from the Championship. He didn't inherit a squad that last season tore the division apart. Where we are is a culmination of years of what I believe are poor decisions including sacking the manager at every given opportunity.

What we're suggesting is that there is an alternative. We're suggesting we stick with the manager and see where it goes. Not because we've sacked so many managers in the past, but because that policy doesn't work, so we should try something different. Repeating the same policy is not a problem, but repeating one that consistently fails certainly is. Insert quote attributed to Albert Einstein that he never actually said.

This requires patience. Patience isn't something you need just for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, it requires a complete change in attitude. Patience is not necessary when we are doing well, it does not come in to the equation. It is only required when we are performing poorly. The time to display that patience is now.

When we start performing badly, it does not follow that we will continue to perform badly. If it did, we wouldn't have words like improve and recover in our language. When we start to perform badly it does not require a change in personnel to change our fortunes. We don't get to sack ourselves and bring in someone better when we perform poorly in our lives, we turn it around ourselves. A football manager can do the same. They've had precious little time at Oakwell to demonstrate that over recent seasons but it can happen. Alan Clarke dug himself in to some right holes during his second period in charge with us, but he clambered out of them too. Arsene Wenger, over his lengthy career with Arsenal, has enjoyed some great success, then his teams have fallen way below what the fans expect, only to get back on track and mix it at the top of the league again. We've sacked manager after manager after manager and we're getting worse and worse and worse.

There is sound logic in why this is happening. We're wasting money. We're wasting money on hiring and firing managers. We're wasting money on recruiting players that the next manager, who is just over the hill, does not rate. If an organisation on limited funds wastes a good percentage of their budget, they will not perform to their optimum. If you stick with a manager, you're not paying out compensation packages to the one going out, and signing on bonuses to the one coming in and release clauses to the club from where he has come. If you stick with a manager he's far more likely to play the players he has signed rather than constantly requiring a brand new squad.

Displaying patience does not result in your club continuing to employ a bad manager for eternity, it just means you give him the required time to prove whether or not he has what it takes. Lee Johnson said three transfer windows, which seems very sensible to me. He's had one. Give him the Christmas transfer window and next summer and by this time next season we'll start to get an idea of what he's all about. Not a definitive conclusion, but an idea.

I'm not telling you Lee Johnson is a good manager. I'm saying I don't know because there hasn't been nearly long enough for me to find out. That applies to you too.

I've heard it argued that Lee Johnson is incompetent. If he was, he wouldn't have got the job. When he took over as Oldham manager in March 2013, they were in the relegation zone, but he guided them to safety. In his first full season in charge they finished midtable, well clear of relegation. When he left Oldham to join us they were 9th, two points away from the play-offs. That might not be as impressive a CV as you would like for a Barnsley manager (but you reap what you sow I'm afraid), and it does not prove he is a great manager, but he could not do what he did if he was incompetent, so let's knock that on the head before it gets daft.

Playing an alternative to the way you would like to see us play, selecting different personnel in different formations adopting different tactics, does not make someone incompetent, even if those tactics result in defeat. You may believe your ideas would see us perform better, but as they will never be put to the test, you will never know. The big problem with this is that none of us are ever proved wrong, which is why we believe we are right and the manager doesn't know what he's doing. We're kidding ourselves.

 

good post ,we all need to work together, get behind the team and the manager .

 

I always look forward to reading your posts, Jay, as they are usually articulate and well constructed. And so is this one.

But in all the posts that relate to giving a manager time, I rarely see mention of players leaving, thus wrecking that manager's best plans. You (or Lee) mentioned three transfer windows, but the best laid plans are going to be ruined if, say in the third transfer window, the manager's key players leave or are poached by another club. That obviously is not necessarily the manager's fault, but it does counter the "give him time" argument.

Just that has happened to Mark Cooper at Swindon. He has lost his best players, and rightly or wrongly he has been sacked due to poor results.

I don't know what the answer is. But some managers have an immediate impact with current players - look at Graham Westley at Peterborough, although it remains to be seen how they perform until the end of the season.

 

I'd normally agree with Jay in terms of backing the manager but I just don't see anything in Johnson that gives me any belief in him.

For me he's a salesman, a good talker, the sort of bloke that can make friends with everyone & do a fantastic interview but he's not a good manager.

I've moaned enough in other posts but his transfers, subs, keeper choices, failure to see when a game needs changing all leave me with no doubt he's not up to it

 

It's a long post Mr Jay
I will simplify it for you
He will get the sack if we lose Tuesday and Saturday but it won't just be Lee Jay who departs!

 

Supposedly, we now have a board structure that will not allow our talented players to leave on the cheap. We will never stop our best players leaving, very few clubs can, but if we get the money for them they are worth (and maybe more) we can continue to invest in the squad.

 

Likety like.
You've summed up my feelings and opinions perfectly, old mate, and far more eloquently than I could manage.

 

Amen.

If Flitcroft was a bad manager, how come he has now got Bury promoted and are 4th in our league?
If Hill was a bad manager, how come Rochdale are consistently above us?

Neither were. They may have irritated a few supporters, but they clearly know what they are doing. Perhaps they feel freer and less burdened at clubs with lower expectations than ours. Perhaps we, as supporters, are our own worst enemy by calling for their heads prematurely.

I prefer LJ to both of the above, for his intelligence and charisma. If I were a player, I would like to play for him. If he were to leave us, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he went on to have more success elsewhere than here, like Hill and Flitcroft.

We sacked Hill and then Flitcroft for being bad managers and both have since clearly proved that they are competent managers at this level at other clubs.

We need to be in a situation where we are bringing 2 or 3 players over the summer and letting 2 or 3 go. We won't get that by continually changing manager and ethos.

The boo boys need to calm down, take a look at the bigger picture, go have a nap, have a cup of camomile tea, do a bit of yoga and meditation, then come back supportive and positive for the match against Walsall.

 

Boo boys? Good grief.

 

So, if we received a substantial fee for Mason Holgate, where has that fee been invested in the squad? Genuine question, as I do not know the comings and goings at the club all that well recently.

 

Hill gave up at Barnsley. He didn't want to be at our club anymore. He never said it but his body language & interviews told me that. He is a good manager & built a very good side but for reasons out of his control that got dismantled & he wasn't able to build a good team 2nd time round.

Too early to judge with Flitcroft. They had a huge budget for league 2 last year & considering what they spent they should've been promoted. Doing well in league one so far but we often see that with newly promoted teams. Let's see where they are in 6 months time

 

Boo Boys?

What a load of ballax!!!!!!!

People are paying good coin to follow the Reds, ask the hardy souls who made the journey to Southend, and they expect far better than the clueless drivel being served up.

Lee Jay is sadly floundering and is in danger of being put out of his misery due to his inadequacy as a Head Coach

 

There was no booing I was aware of at Southend yesterday, even when LJ came to the away end to applaud the supporters.

 

I'd like to know that too.

 

Lol

 

Probably the money for Holgate is funding this useless policy of ours in recruiting numerous loanees instead of investing the money in permanent recruits where we stand a chance of developing a more stable long term squad.

 

Shut up you happy clapper!

Great post, by the way.

 

It was meant as a figure of speech.

"Those who most frequently and vocally disapprove of the current situation on this board", if you prefer.

 

And so he should applaud them, he should have shaken everyone's hand and apologise for the 2nd half drivel he serving up. Tactically clueless is Johnson and the clock is ticking for his sacking. He'll be gone before 1st round of FA cup on 7th Nov unless we get a run of wins in next 4 games. My support for him as coach/manager has gone but my support for the team and club will last until my last breath.