The cycle of decline

We got butt ****** last year with the loss of Williams, Cole and Winnall - some might blame Wilson for not replacing them with quality but they had become along with Hourihane the mainstays of our 1st XI. We didn't have the balls to see that season through, and look where it's got us.

 

I agree with most of that.

Usually, you find that the rest of a management team stop communicating with the fans in order to dissociate themselves from the manager so that he takes all the responsibility for the failings of the team and all the management behind the scenes. The current communication blackout makes me fear for the worse, I'm afraid. I said after the last appointment that If Johnson failed, that the guy who appointed him should also go. It was an attempt to create a sense of joint responsibility for sorting out the problems at the club. To create a united team both on and off the field. But when the s hits the f, it is always the same bloke that takes the blame, and my guess is that it will be no different this time.

 

The one positive I had taken from the appointment of Ben Mansford was improved communication. Even if you don't like him, there's no getting away from it, it was miles better than it used to be. Now we're in bother and he's nowhere to be seen with nothing to say, after being an almost permanent fixture in the public eye. I judge him very harshly for that as both a club employee and a man. Stand by your appointment Ben for Christ sake. Simply not sacking him is not enough.

 

You find out about a person's character when times are tough.

 

I'm

So are you saying that the club is run as a business and treats fans more like customers? As such it's the right of the fans to act as customer. Whether you like it or not, if the club positions itself as a business and decisions taken as such, then no one can complain when fans act as customers. In which case loyalty, emotional connection and lifestyle will have a lower effect on some customers decision making than in the past with our club.

 

You may well be right about both loyal fans and fickle fans being of the same opinion. However, I speak for myself and my frustration that in his account of why Danny Wilson was sacked, Ben Mansford related the decision specifically to the stay away fans and the business consequences of their actions.

 

No. In fact I am saying exactly the opposite. A football club is not a normal business. It competes with other football clubs and is judged by its fans purely on its ability to win football games against other football clubs. If it loses football matches, it does not matter the supporters of the losing side whether the game was entertaining to the supporters of the other team or not. After a match, you generally have one set of fans (customers) who were entertained and who are happy with the value for money provided, and another set of fans (customers) who are not entertained and who do not think they have had value for money. Two entirely separate groups of people have seen the same game and have entirely different views upon it. How can this be a normal service provider/customer relationship.

 

Where does the 3 year time span come from? LJ said 3 transfer windows, not 3 years. 3 transfer windows is 1.5 full seasons. Jan will be his second window. Unless he meant 3 summer windows...

 

But I agree and my point is that, it's club (and in fact the sport in general) that's declared its a business, not the fans. As such people will pay to watch or not more so today than before based on price, match day experience, entertainment value, as well as results and league position. To run the club, even in part, as a business means you have to treat people as both fans and customers. Both have different dynamics. The fact is some people are talking of not investing their money as they don't see the club as returning anything. Personally it's not about the money for me, it's more about how much I enjoy the match day experience, even to the extent of maybe still buying a season ticket. Whether I choose to go game in game out is a different matter. I'm aspiring to be a fair weather customer

 

That is a view that does not take account of the other leisure time pursuits available to fans/potential fans these days. Not just the fact that you can watch as much football as you like without leaving your armchair - but certainly for younger fans, there are far more things that they can do other than sit through 90 minutes of attrition to win a game 1-0 - that may satisfy idiots like me who just want his team to win, but people are more sophisticated consumers these days. Sorry but football is competing in a very broad and competitive market now.

Provide zero entertainment and crowds will fall, especially at the match day prices and convoluted pricing/ticketing schemes employed.

Winning alone just isn't enough. It'd be a start for us at the minute though.

 

I started mid sixties and have missed a few seasons due to working away, but I wished now that I had not renewed for this season after the DW debacle and now am intent to succeed this time in not renewing.

I wouldn`t say I was fickle cos Christ there have been numerous opportunities down the years to prove that I could have been.

If a long termer like me and others who have put in long stints are looking at a way out then summat is seriously wrong.

 

There's a long time between now and May. If season ticket renewal forms were issued now, I reckon Ben Mansford would have to go to A&E to have a couple of hundred surgically removed from his jacksie. But it won't carry on like this. We'll not finish the season 1 point from the foot of the table, having lost more than twice the amount we've won, boring everybody in to a state of apoplexy along the way, with everyone who currently holds a position down at Oakwell still in that job. Summats going to give. Whether that's an upturn in performances and results or a massive internal shake up, it won't carry on as it is for much longer. We'll have to see what we're left with before saying 'no more'.

 

Things could very well change for the better and I`m sure lots of folk will change their minds come renewal time, but its got to be a dramatic shift in the entertainment stakes for me do the usual and put into the pot again. Not sure this bloke can do that, but he has while the end of the season to do it, or the next guy in hot seat.

More than likely be cup games and cheap tickets for me next season.

Thing is it aint a spur of the moment decision.

 

To be fair, you both make reasonable points that not incompatible.

 

It is my opinion that a new manager needs three years to build on solid foundations. If he has not done so after three years then we start to think about whether there are external reasons to explain our lack of progress. If no explanation can be found, and after careful considerations, then it might be time for the manager to go. You see, I am very patient.

Also, Johnson's contract is for 3 years, rather than the usual 12 months rolling, so I presume that the board thought that it was a three year job when they set him on.

 

He asked for 3 transfer windows and that's what he'll get imo. PROVIDING we are in no risk of relegation. At the moment, we are at risk of relegation. The clock will be ticking for LJ for as long as we remain in the bottom 4.

 

3 years is a hell of a long time in modern football terms. Progress should be seen incrementally through this period. Im behind giving a manager a longer stretch, but there must be progress. I wouldn't be surprised if the 3 year contract has caveats which protect the club based on league position, relegation etc. Im also sure there will be elements that help LJ with respect to promotions, top 6 etc. We don't know what these are but there will be triggers somewhere. Depends who pulls it.

 

Its ****.

Weve lost six league games on the trot. In most of them wevw rolled over and let them tickle our bellies.

Weve not scored a goal from open play for a month.

Weve a haphazard recruitment policy depending whoevers turn it is to play champ manager.

Weve a management team whos tactics follow suit.

A thousand season ticket holders apparently are awol from games.

Three hundred quid a year people are paying to get depressed for 90minutes.

****ing athersely rec could give a better performace than the first team.