Is a supporter ownership model possible at Barnsley FC

It has been reported that Mr Cryne is looking for a way out. He has become trapped in a position that the club has become reliant upon him for funding, and he is having great difficulty in putting it into a position where it can ever become independent from his financial resources.

My question is this. Could Barnsley Football Club ever become a supporter owned independent company again, or have the fans become so used to the convenience and comfort of money on tap that this is now impossible. This is a serious question about the future of the club that I have followed for 50 years, and I would appreciate it if the repetitive mantras about Lee Johnson's position could be set aside for a moment. When Mr Cryne does step aside, this remains his most realistic mode of exit, but how could it work?

 

Depends if you believe a football league club can support itself without subsidies from a rich owner. I believe it can but Patrick claims otherwise.

Still, who would have thought that someone would have bought a fourth tier club with 4,000 gates, a barely built fourth stand and £166,000 worth of debt to HMRC.

 

Would be fine when winning with low wages and huge crowds. When gets tough let's see how feasible it would be to extract cash from fans...

Won't work

 

I would hope he gets us out of this mess before he steps aside. But we get gates of 8k home fans a week teams like Burton Fleetwood rochdale are doing fine in this league with alot smaller gates. I don't know how he has to put money in each year to keep us afloat unless it's for the academy.

 

It is possible. In fact, I think it's the only way.

No doubt there'd be difficult decisions to be made - for example whilst our attendances are as they are, do we need the West Stand open? What is the amount of staff required day to day to support the football club? Is a Cat 2 academy, of which it costs around £750k a year to run needed? Does the wage bill need cutting? I'd say it would do.

It wouldn't be easy & those in charge (or elected or whatever it would be) would be in for some long days/nights & plenty of hammer. But nothing good comes from things that are easy.

 

Its a viable option.

Id look towards the german model rather than pompey and look to set up a *******ised version to suit our club.

Two majority shareholders providing solid investment/underwriting of over drafts then rest in fan ownership.

 

I think you'd need something similar. So, basically, our old model but with more shareholders than were there before 2002.

 

Not in a million years

Who would make THE decisions ? Such as sacking managers ? Who would be the figurehead ?

Because I guarantee a committee style ownership would leak info like a sieve and the blame game would be in full swing when things went awry.

Who's going to front up to the fans at Athersley when we've lost a few and there's a bit of unrest ? We like to want 'difficult' questions asked but could some of us face them business like manner ?

 

Re: Not in a million years

Whoever the shareholders decide. I'd look to get a board of directors for a set 5 year term - 50% elected by supporters, 50% local businessmen & they would then appoint a Chairman. Any decisions like sacking a manager would then be a board decision.

 

http://www.pompeytrust.com/


lots of good information here. it needs a heck of a lot of fans to be shareholders and it also needs either one individual or preferably a few high net worth individuals to buy the club, these high net worth then become the board of directors with the trust also buying a share (with our donations of say £1000 each) the trust also take X amount of seats on the board in relation to our portion of shares, therefore the trust becomes a significant shareholder but of a minority amount.

this gives us a significant say in how the club is run, it saves an organised bun fight of who makes the decisions. we elect a board for the trust, the trust board then elect 3 memebers to sit on the clubs board. one of the clubs board takes on the role as chairman.

could the trust buy the whole thing? possibly but then that requires a significant amount of cash up front and a way of ongoing income for covering losses, which were substantial at pompey initially as this got going. High net worth "chairmen" covered this shortfall. They also sold a load of land at the ground to a property developer (they needed cash quickly) he sold it to tesco at a profit of course and there now sits a lovely new tesco on the car park at fratton park.

Of course mentioning the land this is a major factor, what are you buying if Cryne sells? a bunch of player contracts thats about it. any deal has to include land and assets, as happened at pompey.

 

Re: Not in a million years

Getting to a Barcelona model there....

It's a nice idea but I think there are too many vested interests at the minute.

You'd need a bloke with cash who would be willing to work with you imho

 

Re: Not in a million years

It is feasible but a major difficulty and one that detracts from the current owner's ability to sell is the issue of ownership of the ground and surrounding area. I know PC has approached BMBC about buying them out but suspect (don't know for sure) that they have the property valued at a commercial level in their books rather than on a more realistic cost-in-current-use basis and hence I seem to recall him saying that he has been quoted an unrealistic price. Does anyone know for sure? If it is the case, maybe we should field supporters candidates in local elections on a single issue slate and get the assets sold back to the club.

 

The link with the Council would be, in my opinion, the most important thing that would need sorting.

 

mentioning the council actualy pompey got a loan off the local council for £1.85 million quid at next to nothing interest rates, secured on fratton park and its value as sold for housing. they paid this off using the first seasons season ticket sales and parachute payments. A major issue at the court case was who the parachute payments belonged to, the old owners obviously still wanted them but the newco won and subsequantly utilised this money they hadn't budgeted for to pay off debts quicker than the business plan stated.

How flush are BMBC??

 

God can you imagine............it'd take a full week debating whether to get a new scoreboard and the price of pies before it even got to playing affairs!

 

Look, I will make this simpler. I will give everyone some ideas so that everyone has a target.

1. PC pays £3m into the club to get out. This is used as working capital.
2. All supporters can be shareholders in the club. Shares would cost £1,000 each, maximum individual shareholding 5 shares.
3. The shareholders appoint a paid managing director who appoints a maximum of 4 other board members (unpaid).
4. The shareholders appoint a chairman to represent them at board meetings.
5. The managing director runs the company (club) on a day to day basis and appoints the team manager.
6. The managing director sets all the budgets for the club, including those for transfers and for player wages (having regard for SCMP).
7. The shareholders are not entitled to sensitive information which if released could affect the clubs on the field performance. However, the Chairman will communicate with shareholders through regular emails and news letters.
8. The managing director is targeted with breaking even on an annual basis.
9. At an the annual meeting, shareholders have the chance to exercise their vote on the usual issues, based on the number of shares they hold.

 

sounds like Ben Mansford is the ideal candite for your paid managing director role!

Seriously though its not as simple as you state. £3 million from PC? Why he's looking to sell not spend, and i know your £3 million saves him injecting further cash. £3 million isnt a great amount and would quickly be swallowed up. if the uptake of supporter shares is low then what... no contingency at all. where do we go if the budgets set to break even take us out of the football league, a downward spiral of lack of investment and lack of interest.

 

Budgets would have to be set at break even because there would be no-one to bale the club out if it lost money.

If the uptake of shares is low, then the answer to my original question, "Is a supporter ownership model possible at Barnsley FC", is no.

If the supporters who own the club are unwilling to pay for season tickets to watch it play, then there is a logic at play that I do not understand.

 

At the risk of sounding somewhat negative, and lacking in constructive criticism (due to lack of time), I would say that the paid managing director in Red Rain's model has far too much power. He or she would appoint the manager, appoint the Board of Directors, run the company, appoint the team manager, set the budget and players' wages, make sure break even is achieved. WOW!!! Far too much power vested in one individual.

 

There's lot of options & lots of things that could be explored. I don't see one ideal model to get supporters involved more but lots of models that you'd need to try & find a suitable hybrid of.