MESSAGE FOR DIRECTORS - what type of player to sign

After listening to Ben Mansford on Radio Sheffield yesterday I thought a few lines would be in order.

Ben, as always, spoke well, but in my view loan signings are not always as he put it "value for money".

This is the reason why:

1) If the club does pursue a loan signing that the club has no intention to acquire on a full contract then that loan signing must be an exceptional talent that will make an IMMEDIATE and massive impact at the club.
An exceptional young talent is someone like a 16 year old Wayne Rooney or David Hirst. As good as Ben Pearson is, and players of similar skills, I would not bring him in on a loan signing in the knowledge that after a few months he will be leaving the club.
Basically because the amount of time and effort that the manager and coaches have to put into such players only financially benefits the parent club.
As Lee Johnson has stated - Ben Pearson is a much improved more mature player now than when he first entered the club. The unseen un-calculable disruption that these players cause a settled team when they go back to their parent club is in my opinion not 'value for money'.
If we are to progress as a club we cannot become a testing ground for other clubs.
We should have more pride and clout as a football club than that.


2) If young loan players are to be brought in to the club, of say Ben Pearsons quality, then this must be with the understanding and agreement with the parent club that if that player performs well then Barnsley will have the first choice of signing him.


3) Signing young players from Premiership clubs is fine, but if we are to progress then the way forward is the one the directors adopted while Keith Hill was the manager; and that was to identify players in lower leagues or in second teams and bring them in and develop them.
In my opinion, that system failed at the time partly because Patrick Cryne was away from the club, but importantly Keith Hill had little money available to him to bring the right players in and when he did get them there was no money available to give the players a decent length of contract.
Hence the players were often given away at cut down prices. Remember the Keith Hill quote at that time - "its like shopping at Aldi when everyone else is shopping at Waitrose."
If Keith Hill, or any other manager over recent years, had been given something near a level playing field compared to say the average expenditure of the bottom 10 clubs in the league then I'm sure he and the other managers would have made a success of it.


So in this transfer window, as much as most people on this message board seem to be getting excited about this player or that player coming to the club - in my opinion this is just a smoke and mirrors exercise because there is nothing solid, no long term planning, involved in any of the statements coming from the club with regard to potential new players.

 

Good UN's

Hth

 

Your last paragraph sums up my thoughts exactly

No long term planning at the club any more.

 

That's a terrific post Nudger!

 

You can have all the long term plans in the world but if no one wants to sign for you, what then?

And then if they do sign- and turn out to be a turkey- how do you shift em on and find the money for more?

Just a couple of thoughts.


Ps, I genuinely don't think there's any smoke and mirrors- as great a phrase as it is- we just aren't told anything.

 

You beat me to it, what if we had given wilkinson a 3 year contract, folk would be whinging that we are stuck with him,

 

So your suggestion is spend more money?

Our strategy for player recruitment has changed quite often in recent years. Under Hill we recruited from the lower leagues and the rhetoric from the fans was if you sign lower league players that's where you'll end up. We should be signing championship quality players.

We then looked to supplement our players from the lower leagues with experience from the championship and higher divisions. This worked reasonably well in the Champiomship (despite our eventual relegation) as Harewood, Scotland, McShane and Ramage were all decent players for us. However, as we dropped into league one our spending power dropped and we were only able to recruit the likes of Lita and Treacy. Decent players in their day but now obviously past it, just looking to for final pay packet and with no resale value. This obviously wasn't a sustainable recruitment policy. At best they'd be reasonably affordable, have a run in the team without injury before being released when their contract was up because they were too old.

The strategy in the last couple of seasons has been to go with youth. We've recruited youthful players on contracts such as Mawson, Watkins and Winnall but also used the loan market. We've had plenty of successful loan players. We went on to sign Williams and White and tried to sign O'Sullivan and Pearson but the risk with try before you buy is that someone else or the parent club is going to be impressed with them. On the up side, we're not stuck with failed loanees such as Wilkinson and Smith on three year contracts. There's been a couple of loans that were obviously not with a view to buying, such as Crowley. However, he looked like the type of player who could make an immediate impact. He obviously has plenty of ability but just wasn't quite ready for league 1 and was coming into a struggling team.

I think people have to understand we're not that attractive a proposition anymore. We're not that cash-rich either so I can completely understand the strategy of trying before you buy and supplemented with youth loans from premier league clubs that we'll be paying absolutely peanuts for. So what if they don't turn out to be amazing? They can sit on the bench or be left out of the squad like Smith and Wilkinson or go back early like Crowley.

We obviously need some experience and as we understand it, we missed out on a couple in the summer. However, that doesn't mean we can't also continue to recruit through the loan market.

 

Over the last 6/7 seasons I'd put our 'success rate' from loans at about 15% this isn't good enough. clearly using some loans to bolster your squad is no bad thing. Using them to form the basis of your squad as we have this season is just daft. It's why we find ourselves with 1 fit central midfield player. It does nothing to create team spirit or foster a relationship between fans and players.

In our league recruiting from those around us we are one of the more attractive clubs (top 6 budget remember). We should be able to successfully compete for the best players outside the top 2 leagues. I also think it's wrong to see loans like Crowley as low risk given our probable contribution to his wages.

 

Best intentions and perfect information, meet reality.

 

On Wilkinson why did we sign him in the first place when Johnson had him on loan in the first place.

We shouldn't be going down the try before you buy route with players who've played competitive football in the top 4 divisions.

I can understand with kids who've never played men's football but with proper professionals our scouts & manager shouldn't need to loan first

 

^this^ 10 fold

 

And this is the reason a change is required.

Failed strategies "we're not that attractive a proposition anymore"

That's because the club have made wrong decisions that culminated with our relegation from the championship.

 

I hear what you're saying mate but I honestly don't worry too much about loans, in a ideal world we wouldn't have to rely on the loan market but unfortunately it's the way football is going for clubs of our size and financial status, if these loan players can get us promoted then I'd be more than happy with that.

 

The problem is Bossman unless their on loan for an entire season, continuity and all that, it won't happen unless our squad is made up with 80% of permanent recruits.

 

Exactly right...........and for those that went yesterday against Fleetwood, the strategy adopted over the last 10 years was plainly there to see.
And anyone who is willing to defend that strategy is not watching the same team as I am.
We are in meltdown especially over the last 6 or 7 years - and there is no getting away from that fact.

 

The League position doesn't lie Nudger.

Cryne must relinquish the reigns for us to progress otherwise whats the point anymore.

 

I'm not a fan of loans. I can stomach one or two in the squad, to cover injury or whatever, but signing six was it, before the season started was ridiculous. How many are still here, how many we signed, how many can you state were successful?

Don't get me wrong, you can drop on some quality young loanees. And I appreciate it's probably cheaper to go down this route. But I don't think it's working for us.

Since Lee Johnson came to the club, nearly a year ago now, we've seen 18 loan players sign. That strategy is completely at odds with what I hear supporters say they'd like to see. And goes against what the club tell us every year. Why not sign lads and give them time, a chance? Bobby Hassell would have been bombed out and replaced by Wabara this season, the way Bob started his BFC career. Loads of other cases I haven't the time to bang on about. So that's why I'm not in any of the threads slating Mawson to bits or Adam Davies (just two off the top of my head). Because they could get better, especially with support. Just my opinion though.


Saying all that.... when a lad from the academy makes his first start in about 9 months and gets hammered when he's understandably not quite at it, I suppose the club can't win. Or when you hear/read supporters slagging off our best performing players whenever they're not quite at it too. You know, instead of hammering em, why not think "well, he did score and create a goal last week so......" or "well he's a young lad and not played in months so..."

But naew, ******** to that.



Chances are when I get to Oakwell for the Rochdale game, we'll have another few new players, more than likely on loan. And let's jump forward to the summer... then what? When we've sent them all back and the likes of Hammill and White are out of contract, as well as Winnall, Hourihane and Scowen entering the last 12 months of their contracts, then what?

Proper club sorts all this out, in good time. Nailed on we'll be again scratching around at the last minute to cobble a squad together, full of loanees. I can't wait.

 

A well balanced post Mr Whitey

 

Ben has always spoke well since he's been here. Another thing he's also done well is take us further down the footballing ladder.

 

What will you say then if PC weighs it in and and we don't progress or actually get worse.