One potential benefit for we 'Plebs' in a 'Brexit'...

Thinking about it again… As I said, leaving the EU would potentially create big problems for expat retirees (like myself) and Brits working and living in Europe). As many have suggested, a lot of Tories and business leaders wanting ‘OUT’ may well have an ulterior motive i.e. further eroding worker protection, and completely emasculating the unions etc. IN devotees within the Conservatives possibly see an opportunity for cheap labour from migrants and a scapegoat for unpopular employment legislation (see below)

However there is a plus side to the ‘out’ argument from we ‘Plebs’ perspective.

Any legislation would have to originate solely from the UK Parliament (although I am not sure if being subject to the European Court of Human rights is dependent on being in the EU…anyone??) This makes the ‘source’ of legislation 'transparent' i.e. people would KNOW it originates from the UK Govt who could no longer hide behind the usual excuse of …”Its Euro legislation and our hands are tied etc.etc.”.

Every law eroding workers rights is a downside but there are also some advantages too. I know a small business employer who was totally scre*ed over by a woman who was employed for several months and constantly going off sick. She then got pregnant and went on maternity leave…. took the maximum time off and then left his employment. I know it was her right but being a very small employer with only a handful of staff it nearly put him out of business especially as, apparently, it transpired that it was not the 1st time she had pulled this stunt. There are many situations where the ‘balance of power' has shifted too much towards the employee and away from the employer although I agree, the worrying trend of zero hour contracts, minimum wage abuses etc is on the increase.

Similarly, no one would argue that H&S legislation is not vital (no-one wants to see the UK standards decline to the levels seen in many parts of the Indian sub-continent, Asia etc, but some H&S over here has become totally over the top and literally has suppressed the employment market. Less regulation BUT much more rigidly enforced would cut employer costs whilst safeguarding employees, tenants and consumers. Employer savings could help expansion creating more jobs.

IF (and it is a big IF) the savings from exiting the EU and cutting some of the red tape were used for the above AND assisting businesses (particularly small ones) by cutting business rates, Corporation tax etc AT THE SAME TIME improving/ enforcing the minimum/living wage by legislation it could be a good thing.

Of course the elephant in the room is the unknown quantity of how exporters would cope with BREXIT (although we do IMPORT more than we EXPORT and also what we DO export is not solely to the European markets).

 

You can be a signatory to the ECHR and therefore must abide by the ECJ without being a member of the EU but not the other way round

The ECJ isn't an EU institution

 

So a Brexit means we could 'ignore' ECHR judgements or would we have to 'leave' as a signatory first? Would leaving mean existing judgements not enshrined in British Law would no longer apply, Would that be retrospective?? Questions....Questions.

 

We'd need to rescind our signature of the ECHR. The vote question isn't on that

 

ECHR has nothing to do with EU.

 

What about your EHIC (European Health Insurance Card).

Would have thought that would end meaning an increase on the cost of travel insurance. ie. Worldwide Insurance.

 

We could cancel the human rights act this afternoon if we wanted, and during the pre election lie fest Cameron said we were going to do just that. We only joined so Cherie Blair could make millions

 

So hang on a minute (me being a bit thick on this) does that not mean the 'Out' campaigners are telling porkies as well since the 'too many human rights issues because of EU membership" is not quite right as although we have to leave the EU to quit the ECHR we would ALSO have to separately quit the EHCR and that is not part of the referendum vote?

 

Confused more than ever. Who can we trustfor facts without spin (or downright lies)?

 

A vote for out would most certainly let any right wing government make mincemeat of workers rights. Which they are just crying out to do. So forget about "worker x who took the piss out of a small business" because in the grand scheme of things, as unfortunate as it is, it's nothing compared to the mess that a Tory party would make if they were removed.

 

Not sure removing the Tory Party WOULD make a mess"

 

Yes. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous at best as far as I'm aware.

And clearly the ballot won't ask this question. It's a large jump to assume an OUT vote also means OUT of the ECHR.

 

Just one further point to add to the confusion, we are signatories to (and largely drafted) the European Convention on Human Rights. The European Court of Human Rights is the body that presides over that convention. It has nothing to do with the European Union, or the laws that the EU passes, this is presided over by the European Court of Justice.

So in short leaving the EU would not allow us to ignore rulings by the European Court of Human Rights. That would require us to leave the European Convention on Human Rights, the convention drafted by Churchill and Bevan, a convention that secures the right to life, a fair trial, freedom of expression, thought, conscience and religion, respect for private and family life and the protection of property. It prohibits torture, forced labour, unlawful detention and discrimination.

Personally I don't think many people would want us to leave a convention that enshrines these principles.

 

No one.. On both sides... its going to be a campaign based on fear. Who can scare the electorate the most....

Just turn the telly and radio off, don't buy a paper... then come June, vote with your heart.. either way

 

Correction - not many people with brains would wish for us to leave such a convention. However, the vast majority of Brits are completely gormless.

 

When it allows rapists & murderers to remain in this country because they have a cat that needs feeding, then yes it's time to dump ECHR and write our own rules

 

It would if that were true. As it isn't, it's not.

 

Do you know how many cases the British government loses? Less than 1%. In 2012 for example there were 2,082 complaints against the UK and 2,047 were thrown out without a case being heard. Of those considered it found there was no violation in 23, and upheld only 12 complaints.

That tells me two things. Firstly, despite the media's portrayal of the cases the British government has lost the number is so small it's pretty likely that there was a genuine case to answer. And secondly why would we want to tear up something which we are so rarely in breach of yet serves as a judicial tool to protect people who live in countries with far less enviable human right records across Europe. Or is that not our problem?

 

Yeah, they aren't our problem.

Any erosion of sovereignty is too much. If we don't want to allow prisoners to vote and we want to deport Abu Qatada then it's our own business.

 

Sovereignty doesn't exist.