Your direct experience of Europe

One of the strengths of this forum is the breadth of experience of people that post.

So rather than post about other people’s opinions about Europe I wondered what are your direct experiences of it from your own areas of expertise?

In the late 90s I was working with farmers producing agri-environment schemes (funded from Europe), when I discovered that a significant number of farmers were destroying habitats before applying for funding. I reported this fact to my then MP Malcom Bruce. He duly investigated the problem in West Minster and reported back that UK governments (of whatever flavour) were aware of this and were happy that we paid fines to Europe for non-compliance of the rules rather than employ sufficient people to enforce the rules. So it’s not the case that other nations don’t comply with these rules, it’s the Brits. Amazingly we pay more in fines for non-compliance than it would cost us to police the schemes properly. Malcom claimed the reason for this was that the British public are not happy employing armies of civil servants.

In my experience I don’t see any evidence that we have lost powers to Europe. Various environmental frameworks have provide us with the ground rules within which we have been able to develop our own laws and slowly prevent the worst excesses of agricultural intensification. In nations outside of Europe environmental protection and animal rights are given lower priority.

 

Coalfield regenerations, although not the solution to our problems, were of a big help.

 

To a greater or lesser degree I would imagine all countries bend the rules where they think necessary. The last time I was in Spain, the plot at the side of my balcony was a building site for a new hotel. I watched the lads working every morning, without the stuff enforced here..hi viz . .boots..helmets etc.
The worst aspect was a jib crane that lifted small skips of concrete from the mixer, and swung them out over the tourists walking on the front up to the upper floors of the new hotel.

 

All I see is money frittered away just to keep bureaucrats in their ivory towers. On the back of any household commodity i.e. bleach, washing powder, tin of paint, shampoo etc you'll see health & safety phrases imposed by the EU. The actual safety phrases have hardly changed over the past 20 years but we've had CHIP, CHIP2, CHIP3 and CLP imposed just to keep these people in Brussels accustomed to their luxury lifestyles. This last change is from square pictograms to diamond-shaped pictograms which means every single pack has to be re-originated, old ones scrapped and new ones purchased. Every time they do this it costs companies millions and a lot of smaller ventures have closed because of it. Half the time people don't even read it but every couple of years we're faced with new pointless legislation.

Anyone got an NVQ Level 1? Is it worth a toss? Box ticking exercise which even my dog could pass with all the prompting from the trainers. I know several people who have become millionaires in this industry because the EU dish out half million pound contracts to deliver them. My nephew has NVQ's in plastering, brick laying, plumbing after just a week's training. Not worth a carrot because no employer recognises them but he has his certificate and the EU has forked out another £3,000 to get him there. There was nothing wrong with the old-fashioned apprenticeships but they took time and it's far easier to chuck money away at a meaningless certificate.

 

Does living in the multicultural area of barnsley count as experiencing Europe?

 

It could be, but nothing new there, Miners of Eastern Europe origin, Irish road workers, and something I regrettably never came across Swedish Au Pair girls.

 

I've got box packers of polish origin theives of Romanian origins letcherus perverts of North African origin.

Few Lithuanians, some dodgy Russians, few west Africans.

And some gingers.

 

I'm currently involved in a direct fight with the EU commission.

Within the Agriculture and such commision there is a ruling on Bio Fuels - ethanol and biodiesel from used cooking oil made from "sustainable" sources. These fuels get gret wacking subsidies to be put in your tank...

But these sources cannot come from food sources - the food vs. fuel debate is watched allegedly closely.

Anyway I use a product which is a by product of food production which is used in animal feed - and if this doesn't get fed to animals something else - like wheat or corn, must be used. This by product is used to make ethanol quite normally and doesn't need a subsidy to be cost effective.

The cheese eating surrender monkeys don't even make this by-product - and make ethanol directly from the food product profitably without subsidy BUT want to get double subsidies for ethanol production - so they have created a calculation to determine the "by product" equivalence - i.e. how much by product they would get if they didn't make ethanol already.

The British fought tooth and nail for this by product to be excluded from the specific list of "sustainable sources" - which was succesful, then then with a few minutes notice the French stuck "and anything else which individual governments deem appropriate" on the end of the legislation - meaning that the French government and french industry can ignore the hard fought victory we specifically secured do what the **** they like and get loads of subsidies from the EU and not only that grow a load of product to feed the ethanol factories on land which could otherwise be used for food.

Frankly the whole system is broken - massively.

Are we better off without it - I doubt it.

But the whole thing stinks worse than a sweaty brie from the armpit of a Parisien in July.

 

The NVQ system is not a EU directive, it is a UK initiative.

Level 1 is the stepping stone to level 8 and its wrong to compare it with the old apprenticeships where if someone gained a qualification it would have been at least level 2 or 3.
In the 60's and 70's many apprentices finished their apprenticeship without any qualification but as job seeking became more competitive, competence had to be proved. Enter the NVQ and the national qualifications framework. Where I will agree is that fast tracking is undesirable and these so called deliverers should be weeded out. When managed properly there is nothing wrong with the NVQ ideology. None of this is directly EU related IMHO

 

I've been to Spain once. The bacon and eggs aren't as nice.

 

I was genuinely touched by a Greek lady offering my then girlfriend and I her bedroom overnight for what seemed to be a pittance.

I was even more enamoured by said woman's indifference when the girlfriend puked on the floor after a bout of sunstroke, and how she never complained as I ran out of the room (in search of bucket) and tripped up over her as she slept on the floor outside.

So therefore I think we should form our own trading block with Greece. I also like tzatziki too.

 

As someone open to arguments can I just say the out campaign don't help themselves when their advocates are supercilious nobs like Julian Fellowes and Julia Hartley Brewer on QT. If I'm not going to be given facts then I'll end up voting with people who don't ******* annoy me.

 

Because of EU trade agreements and a common market, my business has been able to trade with clients in the EU and generate hundreds of thousands of pounds that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. It would have been subject to tariffs and subsequently uncompetitive.

That has generated jobs, investment, trade with other UK based suppliers and small businesses and contributed additional tax to the UK coffers.

Travel to the continent is fast and easy for leisure and business is a massive improvement.

There are some incredible people in Europe. Having visited so many of its nations, there is support, pride and friendliness to be seen. But the media (and many british people) seem content to focus on scare stories and find negatives rather than the togetherness that is often found.

Clearly there is bureaucracy and inefficiency. Consider our houses of commons and lords though. Has anyone looked at MP's expenses (back at record levels)? The continued employment of MP family members? The poor voting records of MP' on UK driven bills and legislation? The conflict of interest of the current mayor of london having 3 other jobs, also being an MP, a cabinet member and a right wing newspaper columnist?

I find it ironic we can complain about the EUs inefficiencies but fail to shine a light on the corruption and cronyism in our own country.

On the basis of trade alone, my vote will be IN. Its telling that every outter wants to enjoy the same single market they currently enjoy, something they couldn't possibly negotiate.

 

Germany is great, France is ****.

 

Another strength of this forum is the high quality of the sarcasm available

 

You call the corruption "inefficiency"

The way that the French and german govts blatantly disregard public procurement legislation to fix it that the French only buy french cars and germany too only buying trains made by Seimens and cars made by german manufacturers.


The way the French blocked british beef when it was declared by the EU safe - The way the French buy British companies to close them down & take the order book to protect french jobs.


This is corruption not "inefficiency"

Similarly the market would of course continue - Do you think German car manufacturers put up with a situation where they didn't have free access to the british market?



However - with the current system of govt. here - and especially with Boris in charge an out vote would simply focus the "innefficiency" in London.

I'm not sure which is the worse of the two evils. I see it as a cleansing process getting rid of them all - and an out vote gets rid of one part of the rot - then we can start on the rest.

 

Of course... no such things ever happen in the UK do they?

Where there is money and power there is corruption. And there are swathes of it in the UK. Coming out of the EU will have no impact, all we'll do is lose a market that we try to get back into on worse terms.

Everyone is entitled to their views. I just hope economic facts enter the "debate" at some stage

 

Good luck with that one because the way I see it both sides have got more than their share!