Does Anybody Not On PAYE

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Conan Troutman, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,954
    Likes Received:
    19,457
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It's theft whether it's state sanctioned theft or not. Though of course legally you are right.
     
  2. tobyornottoby

    tobyornottoby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    5,896
    Likes Received:
    1,451
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    You're wrong again.

    Theft involves dishonesty.

    And tax avoidance is not necessarily dishonest, if indeed it is dishonest at all.
     
  3. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,954
    Likes Received:
    19,457
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It is dishonest. You have looked at the rules of tax and decided you do not wish to pay your fair share. Calculating. Worse than benefit fraud that is generally done out of need as it's just greed. If benefit fraudsters could afford consultants and lawyers they could ' legally' fiddle the benefit system ( in fact as someone who used to investigate benefit fraud I could show someone how do legally do it within seconds). Look at R v Zorlu if you want to live with a partner whilst claiming benefits as a single person you could legally get away with it if there was no financial interdependency between the two of you. Doesn't make it any less dishonest to find a loophole and exploit it. Again driving a car in some illegal manner and then denying you were the driver and getting away with it. Still dishonest but possible to get away with it.
     
  4. Brush

    Brush Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    17,450
    Likes Received:
    16,573
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Ex-IT professional
    Location:
    Swadlincote, South Derbyshire
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I'm out of work at the moment, but if I get a new contract, should I setup a payroll?

    Also I'm in receipt of a couple of pensions which add up to nearly £8000 a year, so my personal allowance is almost gone before I start.

    Would it make sense to simply pay myself the whole lot as a salary and make no profit (hence pay no corporation tax)?
     
  5. BFC Dave

    BFC Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,966
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Home Page:
    Style:
    XenForo - Xenith Reds
    I sorry but we have to disagree. The laws are written to favour the rich and powerful and that in my opinion is immoral but not dishonest. Above you have mentioned benefit fraud and fraud is a criminal offence and that has to be dishonest.

    I don't agree with the tax laws as they are but every time the government brings in a new anti avoidance provision and they do, a whole well paid industry tries to circumvent it.

    Just one final point, who decides what is someones 'fair share', is it not adherence with the tax laws ? If you don't like the laws lobby for change... but good luck with that.
     
  6. tobyornottoby

    tobyornottoby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    5,896
    Likes Received:
    1,451
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Simple example for you:

    I pay 10k tax if I do not pay into a pension scheme.

    If I set up a pension and pay into it I get tax relief and thus pay e.g. 2k less tax.

    By so doing according to you I am a criminal, given that you are calling it theft.

    Which I think is ridiculous.
     
  7. Carlycu5tard

    Carlycu5tard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    358
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Fair Share: Cost of running country is £750 billion.

    Population: 65 million

    Fair share: £11,500 tax per man woman and child.

    Are you paying your fair share?

    Households 18.7 million "fair share" per household £40,100 per household.

    Is your household paying it's fair share?


    The very highest earners - amounting to just under 3,000 people with a declared income above £2.7 million - will contribute 4.2 per cent of the total Government revenue from income tax in the current financial year.

    By contrast, Britain’s nine million poorest paid workers contribute less than four per cent of the total income tax receipt.


    However - on the flip side - these rich folk with dividends and shares and entrepreeneurs tax releif and capital gains tax and that are paying about 40% tax on their declared income above their tax free allowance - whilst those of us stuck in "PAYE" end up paying about 50% of everything we earn above the tax free allowance.

    Fairness.........it's all about where you sit.

    Personally I think everyone should have a tax free allowance and every single penny of income - however you earn it - above that flat rate should be charged at the same rate - say 40% - and forget about NI and these other complexities which provide these loop holes in the first place.
     
  8. BFC Dave

    BFC Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,966
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Home Page:
    Style:
    XenForo - Xenith Reds
    You could also argue the same about ISAs tax free savings and growth.

    There is a line to be drawn though
     
  9. Carlycu5tard

    Carlycu5tard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    947
    Likes Received:
    358
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    The arguement could also be made about:

    Pensions
    Having savings / shares in your wifes' name
    "cash in hand jobs"
    Off set mortgages
    Trust funds
    Inheritance planning

    etc etc etc.

    The line seems to be drawn, however, just above the level that the person drawing the line can reach...
     
  10. BFC Dave

    BFC Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,966
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Home Page:
    Style:
    XenForo - Xenith Reds
    Agree with the above except for

    Cash in hand jobs - tax evasion and illegal
     
  11. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    29,954
    Likes Received:
    19,457
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Ballet Dancer
    Location:
    Hiding under the bed
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    If someone lived with a partner in full time employment but had no financial interdependence so it was impossible to prove that the partner contributed to the household in anyway They could claim to be a single parent and claim income Support or in work benefits such as Working and Child Tax Credits and do so perfectly legally. I put any sort of tax avoidance in the same bracket. People who do it are no better or worse they are using knowledge to gain an advantage. On a small scale it's pretty much an irrelevance but not so much when it's Starbucks or Amazon or Vodafone.
     
  12. BFC Dave

    BFC Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,966
    Likes Received:
    849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Home Page:
    Style:
    XenForo - Xenith Reds

    If I was to put £800 into a pension to save for my retirement to government would add £200 in basic rate tax relief into the pension. If I was a higher rate tax payer I should also get relief at the the marginal rate subject to certain restrictions. When 55 I could draw 25% tax free lump sum and take the balance as I wish but pay tax at the highest marginal rate. This is not me by the way I'm well past 55. Do you consider that to be tax avoidance because if you do there's a whole raft of ordinary folk including public servants who avoid.

    How about ordinary folk investing in ISAs ?
     

Share This Page