The stadium wasn't fit for purpose that's why it didn't have a safety certificate, the tragedy wouldn't have happened if there had been a competent Commander on duty who implemented basic crowd control methods used at every other big match at Hillsboro
If I remember rightly that dukenfield fella wasn't experienced in games this size.... So who appointed him?
I was at the Stoke game you mention and was there in good time. I found myself, however, being crushed up against a turnstyle wall (one of the few that were open), in turn crushing someone in front of me, and starting to panic big time. The mounted police, observing all this, did nothing. Terrifying experience. We were informed afterwards that the problem had been caused by our fans, whose coaches/train had been held up by the police until just before kick-off, pushing from the back of the queues. Not sure whether the main blame lay with the fans for pushing or the police for delaying them but, as a law-abiding citizen, I'll never forget the indifference of the police to the situation, through no fault of my own, I found myself in.
Exactly and given that there were other officers who had experience with him , did they give him advise and were ignored
Duckenfield replaced Mole who had been suspended along with a few other coppers after some initiation ritual, or similar, at Hammerton Road police station in Hillsborough which involved abuse of some other coppers. That was the culture of the police back then - very macho, very law unto themselves. Hillsborough had hosted 4 semis in the 10 years up to 89 and that experience was lost. On the day Duckenfield didn't have the experience to respond to what was going on. He froze and then the police started the campaign to blame the fans, spread on the police's behalf by Tory MP Irvine Patnick and The Sun.
But some of those Liverpool fans attending that day may by their actions have contributed to the erecting of fences. Like you and those 96 that died, we just want to watch and enjoy a football match, however the hooligan element of all clubs (including Liverpool) have some responsibility, however remote for this tragedy.
An interesting read on crushes and crowd control in general http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-disasters-happen-and-how-they-can-be-avoided
I'm not ashamed though, however the hooligans I blame for the need to erect fences are not really fans. Of course it's a combination of failures that led to this happening and a major failure by SYP, however no fences, no tragedy.
I genuinely don't know mate. I haven't looked at it in much detail. It's a bit distressing and I struggle to cope with others misfortune in such situations. Having kids years back totally change how I think about things. Especially like thus where kids were involved. I just don't know if the person that decided he was to be commanding officer has also taken any stick because they put him in that position. Decisions he made whilst adding to it I can't help thinking that someone has been shitting themselves for assigning the game to him to start with
I find it interesting since I trust the police day to day but as soon as you have the label "football fan" on your head they don't care a jot. Was reminded of this Saturday.. I wasn't in colours wasn't drunk or disorderly, you wouldn't have known I'd come from a football game had I not been in a big crowd of Barnsley fans. I needed to call into the center of Sheffield to get some bits before heading home on the train so tried to walk through a line of police (there were no Sheff U fans on the other side) and I was abruptly grabbed and thrown back by one clearly with a bone to pick who informed me I was not going past him and I could only head to the station. Not really sure how having attended a football match removed my right to enter a city center but there you go.
It seems some are intent on laying all the blame on so called fans rather than in its rightful place,however their misguided opinions matter no more as the truth is finally out and the blame is rightfully and lawfully where it belongs ,just need the persons responsible to answer for full closure. The audacity of some people to claim that a few drunks could cause the disaster when the failings of crowd control were obviously evident is beyond belief. No wonder we learned nothing in the forthcoming years since.
I must have imagined all those people pushing and shoving outside, all impatiently wanting to get in at the same time.
South Yorkshire Police South Yorkshire Ambulance Brigade Sheffield Wednesday Sheffield Council The Sun Hang your heads in SHAME....
And they may not. I believe those who listened to the evidence over the last two years. You believe what you like and blame who you want.
I would love to know which facts they considered to come to the conclusion that some fans did not contribute on the day.
No you didn't imagine that happening ,it happens all the time.what you probably did imagine is that was why all those people died INSIDE the ground.
I don't agree with whitewashes. I didn't agree when the authorities actions were being whitewashed and I don't agree now when it's the fans actions that are being whitewashed. The truth is that all parties present that day were partly responsible.
You're right. All those people pushing and shoving outside had absolutely no influence whatsoever on what happened inside. It's not as if someone ended up opening an exit gate because of it.