Bored so just gonna chuck in a few (probably ignorant) thoughts on the referendum

We should exit and create our own union of similarly advanced nations, what has become the EU project would have been fine had it been restricted to Western Europe, but the old European mentality of expansion has continued but through false economic promises to less advanced nations rather than by force and what was a fairly stable collective of nations that were pretty close anyway is now destined to decline.

The objectives of a lot of countries throughout history, particularly those to the east of us, has been to create some utopia where the state controls everything and whilst I don't believe the EU wants to intentionally create a big communist dictatorship, you're always going to head somewhat towards that ideology when you are trying to create equality, but that never works because people are too different whether it be through laziness, greed in opposition to people who are naturally hard-working.

The mentality of those that wish to remain seems to be "well we aren't doing that bad now, let's maintain the status quo" when really we should have much more confidence in ourselves as a country that can look after itself rather than having to share our wealth with countries who, when I was at school, were part of the Soviet Union, or in some cases didn't even exist!

People go on about trade - the trouble with this is people always look at it in terms of total figures. Do you think a small manufacturing company in Poland is going to stop selling us cheap stuff? Are they heck, they will just want the money, they won't care if we're part of the EU or not. As for exports, we make industrial machinery and cars...excellent quality stuff as well which countries will still buy.

There's a Canadian company employing thousands of British people in Derby, Bombardier. They know how to build trains - but EU rules mean that when we want to buy some new trains, which the government has committed to doing, we can't just ring them up and say "100 new trains please lads", the contract has to go out to tender and often ends up being awarded to a company in another country where labour is inevitably cheaper, but that money has gone from the country, doesn't matter if you spend more in your own country, the money is still here and benefiting the economy, a large proportion of it then going back to the government to be recycled into the economy again.

Join the 'Better on us sens' campaign.

 

Let me just throw a few thoughts into the mix.

I know many companies who are generating less orders and sales than pre referendum talk, significantly those who sell goods and services to european countries.

I know several companies (some large some small) who have put in place plans for significant redundancies should we exit the EU.

I had my house valued a few weeks ago and all agents said their volumes were down til people know the outcome, but the spring surge hadn't materialised this year and they had very low volumes of housing stock for sale.

This all relates to London, considered by many to be the economic heartbeat of the country.

These events aren't political or ideological, but simply companies trying their best to protect themselves if we exit the EU. I don't know any companies who have said they'd cut jobs if we stayed (not that I expect admissions to me).

I'm sure there will be exceptions, but thats just the experience I've had the last few months that I thought I'd share.

 

too right nobody has a clue..i watched a video the other day with a norweigan politician called Anne Beathe Tvinnereim who said categorically that they were told they would lose thousands of jobs overnight if they didnt join the EU,that all their industries would suffer,that fishing would suffer,they were told interest rates would rocket,much in the same way we are being bombarded with negativity,however,none of this happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UbT0g9A8c

 

Ironically, Norway is suffering from massive issues relating to a huge influx of migrants taking jobs (in healthcare especially) and considerable underemployment of locals who can't make it pay because of the high proportion of benefits paid. Especially in the north and conflict with its local indigenous Sami population integrating.

I visited in February in the arctic north and spent many an hour under dark skies listening to locals talk about their country and the issues they were faced with.

Leaving the EU isn't a silver bullet to all our problems (most caused by government in the UK). It's just painted that way by people who don't align with european views.

 

You should have said ' by people who don't align with pro EU views '....there are a lot of people in other countries who are not aligned to pro EU views...but their views as europeans are just as valid.

 

several companies come on then name them

 

i see no silver bullet,all i see is a EU holding a gun to our head and threatening to shoot us if we pull out,mass job losses,high interest rates,falling house prices,even more at risk from terrorism,more immigration etc etc.. i never wanted the Euro currency and thank god we never did and i have always wanted out of the EU,i'm happy to be in a trade organisation but not a political union,its as simple as that.

 

EU Referendum: this will do for me. be careful what you wish for if you vote leave.

I've read every piece of information I can get my hands on, I've looked past the scaremongering and at the actual uncontested facts where ever possible, I've read all the wild claims (from both sides), I've read all the myth busting info (from both sides). I've read all the claims about how much money is spent where and made it my business to uncover the actual facts. I've read the Socialist case for in, the Socialist case for out, I've read the capitalist case for in and the capitalist case for out.
I've investigated all the projections, pondered on the unknowable and opened myself up to being swayed by either side. As you all know it's a bloody minefield out there but you can get to a kind of clarity if you go searching. You also have to ask yourself who you are, there's an economic case, a workers rights case, an identity case, there a local case. Etc etc. But there's also a kinda human case, what sort of person you feel like, there's no right answer to that one, it's personal.
There's a 100 different facets to the debate but for me it come down to this, with Scotland almost certain to go it's own way in the future I don't want to be left to the whim of Rupert Murdoch, Ian Duncan-Smith, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage & Boris Johnson. A bunch of more vicious *******s you can not imagine and if they pull this off, with glee they will **** us. I trust being in Europe more than I'll ever trust them.
As it stands right now I'll be voting to stay IN the European Union on June 23rd.
I'll not be joining in any debate on this thread, got a weekend to be enjoying, hope you all enjoy yours too and lets be nice to each other

 

Obviously I'm not going to breach client confidentiality.

At the end of the day, if you (the royal "you") believe we're better off in, or you believe we're better off out... you'll believe you're absolutely right.

 

i've spoke to dozens of company directors,all want out of the EU and none predict job losses and definately arnt making plans for mass redundancies.Please dont expect me to name names:tongue:

 

Whatever people's arguments are for leaving, and there are valid ones dependent on what kind of country you want, economic prosperity isn't one that stands up to scrutiny. There isn't a single respected economic body who says we would be better off out.

 

Awful though they all are to one degree or another...they pale into insignificance when compared to Remain champion Tony Blair....the man who took us into a war in Iraq that will have cost the lives of millions when it's finally done...on a lie....a man who lied to us all ...to Parliament....to the troops and to the people. Are you prepared to trust him?

 

and Cameron

 

I agree the economic argument is the strongest one for staying in....but as for respected economic bodies views , more often than not , they and the experts that work there are centrally funded ,and although they claim to be independent are well aware that the next good step up the ladder will disappear if they upset the people at the top .

 

And Osborne.....and Clegg.

 

and then we have Corbyn,who really wants out but darnt say any different to his current stance lol

 

None of us have much of a clue on the consequences of coming out. It's way too complex an issue. There is no way this should even be going to referendum. The public aren't qualified to properly make the decision. The whole point of our political system is to elect people to make sensible and informed decisions on our behalf. This is like dragging someone in off the street to decide how to carry out a brain surgery operation.
All it's boiling down to in debate is whether we'll be better/worse off and the paranoia of the UKIP fringe about not liking foreigners.
The one thing I would say is this. The Tories abhor any kind of government interference. The least amount of actual tinkering they have to do the better they like it. They want the free market to run the country. And yet when faced with an organisation which I freely admit is riddled with flaws and is intent on meddling and legislating to the nth degree Cameron etc want us to stay in. Against all their better instincts. But they have had better access to whatever actual facts there are on the subject. That, to me suggests, the odds are we're probably better off staying in.