A very sensible, well constructed argument, which I doubt a lot of the Leave supporters would even want to read.
I read it and I found it very informative but I've read equally well written and informative arguments from Brexit too. I'm not sure why there is a feeling of superiority amongst the leave campaign but it is coming across that way and I don't think it's helping. The comments made by the smug Menzies Campbell underlined this view in my opinion.
Unless you're rich and privileged I can't see why you would vote Remain. This really is the little man versus the rich, the big corporations, the banks, the oil companies, the establishment. That's why the true Labour socialists are voting out (even Corbyn I bet when he gets in the ballot booth).
I'm quoting from migration watch, the same source as used in the summary posted by Chris Emerson. This in itself shows that one side of the referendum can quote a source to reinforce their argument but the other side can quote from exactly the same source to reinforce their argument. 1.The current scale of migration to the UK, 330,000 a year, of which roughly half is from the EU, is completely unsustainable. 2. As a result of this mass immigration our population is projected to rise by half a million every year – the equivalent of a city the size of Liverpool – for as long as immigration is permitted on the present scale. 3. England is already twice as crowded as Germany and 3.5 times as crowded as France. 4. The additional population growth makes congestion worse and adds to the pressures on public services. This comes at a time when public spending is being reduced. 5. One in four children born in England and Wales is to a foreign born mother. The rise in the number of births has put pressure on NHS maternity services. 6. It has also led to a shortage of school places. 60% of local authorities will have a shortage of primary school places by 2018. 7. The UK has a serious housing crisis. Mass immigration is the main reason for the additional demand. If it continues at current levels, we will need to build 135,000 new homes a year just to house new migrants and their families. This is 370 per day or one home every four minutes. 8. Population growth on this scale renders integration of newcomers virtually impossible. 9. Three quarters of the public want to see immigration reduced and half of them want it cut by a lot. 10. To stop the rapid rise in the UK’s population size, net migration would have to be reduced to well below 100,000 a year. It is currently at over 300,000.
Just read it...holes all over it..not that that's too much of a criticism as both sides have holes all over...he uses fullfact.org quite a bit...fullfact.org have exposed Cameron's own bull on several issues but he's failed to include that at least as a caveat. some of the statements are just his opinion ie We have automatic exemption from “ever-closer union” if this happens, negotiated by David Cameron only last year. As much as he was mocked for his negotiations, this is actually pretty big given this is a concern for a lot of people. Bearing in mind we can't see what Cameron has 'negotiated ' this time round it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. It is childishly naive to think this would be put to us again...other european people voted against treaties a few years ago..they are then repackaged and sold as a a ''tidying up exercise '' not a treaty that needs your vote. The Swiss...In 2014, they held a referendum and voted to limit the free movement of foreign citizens to them. This is in breach of one of the linked agreements mentioned above, and if not resolved (Switzerland have not yet implemented it), will lead to the collapse of quite a lot of the trade agreements with the EU. Just a statement let's wait and see...and wait and see which way the Swiss people vote. Finally, the EU has said it is concerned with the way the Swiss agreement system is working in general, and so would be unlikely to want to implement anything similar with the UK. unlikely is only his opinion.... not based on knowledge but presented as such. One more thing to consider with both Norway and Switzerland is that each country has built up their trade agreements over many decades - they grew alongside the EU as it grew. Neither country has had to negotiate their entire relationship in 2 years after a sudden ending of current agreements, so the idea that we could simply replicate either of these in such a short space is pretty wishful thinking, however optimistic you are about how well trade deals will go! ...true.. possibly but Switzerland and Norway combined by only a fraction of the almost 1m German cars we do..and bearing in mind German Engineering is the sacred cow of Europe as well as Angela Merkels saving grace..they may well (my opinion) be willing to come to speedy deals...better than seeing the lads in Wolfsburg sat on their snaptins. The cost of living in both these countries is also very high - is this related? I’m not sure ....possibly they are the richest countries in europe...it often follows. The EU accounts for 44% of the UK’s exports...actually it's 42% ..the other 2% is trade that goes to the rest of the world only via Rotterdam. Thinking about what the EU would want out of any deal - they would be interested in quashing the hopes of independence movements in other nations which could cause the collapse of the EU. They had no problems making an example out of Greece last year when they tried to stand up to them, and I’m sure they would have no trouble making an example out of us to show any other countries that might want to leave just what it would entail. This is simple self-preservation from the EU. Well that's it then..if they're nasty and shout a lot we'd better come to heel and do what we're told....probably the best example of why we should give them 2 fingers....just think of all the trouble we could have saved ourselves if we'd said the same to Chancellor Hitler. The UK would be on the receiving end of the deal. Unless we want half our economy wiped away, we would basically have to accept whatever deal we were given. This could (and probably would) include free movement of people/Schengen integration, and acceptance of EU laws, treaties into the UK anyway, and no say in any of them. We are a strong partner in the EU and they don’t want us to leave, but they would absolutely have the upper hand in all future negotiations, and we would not get the special treatment we currently have as a member - the incentive to give us that would be gone. Little more than a statement of opinion not fact...who knows what will happen. The EU is our best chance of having a collective movement to help stop the effects of climate change, and have a chance of doing something about it. The clout of the world’s largest economy can help force the hand of other world powers to do something about it too. This may not be high on your priority list of issues to think about with the EU, but the consequences will affect you regardless so it’s well worth thinking about. Doesn't stop us wholeheartedly backing the EU if they are right..we don't have to be in it to offer full support. Polling in Scotland shows that the vast majority of Scots would vote to stay in the EU. A vote to leave would be enough for Nicola Sturgeon to call for another independence referendum, Utter drivel...Nicola Sturgeon heads the Scottish National Party who sole purpose is to divorce themselves from the UK..Nicola will be urging for a referendum as often as possible whatever the situation with the EU...conversely forced membership of the Euro might put a few Scots off indepedence. In addition, the Northern Ireland peace treaty leans on both the UK and Ireland being members of the EU, and a vote to leave would create more tensions there that would shatter the peace deal, or create a pathway for a similar call for independence there. I don’t have any polling data for Northern Ireland on EU opinion, but it’s a risk. No it's not..whatever the political differences..far worse than an EU argument there is nothing to suggest ( unless someone can suggest something concrete...Tony Blair and John Major made the shameful claim about a closed border...why after all the years of murder and mayhem and a free open border would it have to be closed ? unless the risk he talks about was a deliberate Brussels diktat. You must remember that the question in ALL of this discussion is not about whether the EU is good or bad, but whether we are better off out (especially under this Tory government who are determined to take away your rights, damage the climate and economy and promote the UK as a tax haven) or in, whatever its ills. I'm no Tory...but that is just a political statement , no more. The Leave campaign has not come up with a single plan for leaving, not a single suggestion as to what a post-Brexit situation would look like, let alone anything even credible. It’s a huge mystery and unknown, but the available evidence strongly suggests that it wouldn’t be a good one. Of course it's unknown... America was unknown till Columbus found it ( no arguments on that one please just a humorous touch)... but a former head head of The IMF said words to the effect of a dodgy first couple of years...long term could well be decent prospects.
If that is the best Remain can come up with my mind is made up. Biased and factually incorrect in places I have read better articles on Leave. But it's almost make your mind up time folks!!
Judging by the Swiss football team which has a fair number of blacks and arabs, not being in the EU probably won't cut immigration that much to be fair.
It's fair to say the article isn't perfect, but I think it's the clearest and most succinct on the range of issues I've read. Particularly showing the structure of the EU. If migration is the defining issue, then how will we be able to trade with the EU without accepting its policies on that as the other countries like Norway have had to ? To me it's clear, but I really appreciate reading the opinions of other people on threads like these. The debate on here has been brilliant and much better than much of the media.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/european-union-eu-britain-sovereignty This is what scares me about the EU, but with George, I think the alternative aligned to NAFTA rather than the defeated TTIP in the EU will be worse. Would you like the government to be sued by private companies, for overturning, for instance, fracking in your area?
This entrenchment of the protection of corporations is what needs to be fought and changed inside the EU, not outside as a couple of my friends and colleagues on the left believe
I err on the side of LEAVE but under no illsuions that that in itself would be a fix against the corporations and banks. They will still be there...
Not wrong Redstar....one thing though...for those of us who would like to see some re-nationalisation..this really is the last chance , certainly according to Mick Cash of the RMT. RMT general secretary Mick Cash explained that the union backed withdrawal because the EU was pursuing a neoliberal agenda of privatisation of public services and expects member states to follow suit. “EU policies are at odds with the aspirations of this union, as the various treaties and directives are demanding the privatisation of our rail and ferry industries,” he said.
