Referendum

To be honest I'm just fed up of the rabid proselytizing of the brexiteers on here. My beliefs are firmly that we are far better off both financially and in terms of a progressive society inside the EU. And I'm tired of the blatant lies from the out camp like the £350 million we lose every week.

 

Stepping away from the EU will great mass unemployment

The reduction in paid taxes will mean 1000 nurses and 150 Dr's per trust losing their job

Vote in to protect the NHS

 

lol, yes and broadly speaking I'd say it's not a bad one.

 

Why would it mean job losses in nhs?

Do you understand how nhs financing works?

As for great mass unemployment. I highly doubt that.

 

That's fair , and good reasons if you are convinced by them , to vote Remain ...but it's not a balanced argument to suggest only the right wing want to leave ...and also the lies and misinformation from the Remain campaign have come from the highest positions in government...watch Osborne being exposed by Andrew Neil on catchup .

 

Too much personality and not enough proof in all this.

Seems to me that there is little to choose between in and out.

So it's time to base your decision upon something that might mean something to you.

And that something is democracy. Or perhaps to be more precise, accountability.

 

I am sure you are quite aware how the European court of human rights has been used by some evil people in some outrageous situations. Anders Brievik springs to mind a mass murderer, he complained solitary confinement was degrading, inhuman or a punishment. Well yes actually it is, but it is what you deserve, well not according to ECHR. We are very lucky in that we do not have a problem with human rights in the UK. We currently loose 1 in 100 cases amongst the lowest figure of the 47 countries signed up to the court. We don't need a court that regularly decide in favour of murderers and terrorists (1 in 3 cases lost). I'm afraid in my book when you commit murder or engage in terrorism you loose ALL your rights.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-brought-terrorists-prisoners-criminals.html

 

Excuse me? Have you cared to read anything of my opinion previously? I didn't think so.

 

I'm not suggesting just the right wing want to leave. I'm well aware that there are many people with valid viewpoints who may want to leave. I do suggest that the exit campaign encompasses the vast majority of far right support however,
This is my last post on the subject but my reasons for remain are these:-
£350 million per week is a lie. It costs half that as we get £170 million straight back. The balance allows us access to a massive trading zone. One which, should we leave we will not be able to access without incurring costs.
I hear people say, "Oh we did alright before we went in. What's the problem?" How come when we were out we spent years trying to get in then?
I see statements like "lets's get rid of The European Court of Human Rights". As though human rights were a bad thing.
I see health and safety and workers rights bolstered by European legislation and wonder just what a Tory government will do about them should we come out.
I see right wing politicians claiming they'll spend this fictitious £350 million on the NHS. Utter rubbish. far more likely to spend it on tax cuts to bribe the electorate next time they want your vote.
I see a fragmented Europe having to deal with an ever more confident Russia going back to its old granny steps policy with no fear of concerted reprisals. Crimea would be far more likely to be repeated elsewhere.
I see the great majority of financial experts urging us to stay in. Not all, but the majority.
I see arguments that immigrants drive down wages....despite there being a minimum wage. And then I hear that they come hear to sponge off the state. Either accuse them of working or accuse them of spongeing...not both.
On immigration I hear the same old scare tactics being employed that Farage used in the election. Unsurprising as he is a major player in the out campaign. I don't want to live in a society where self interest to the exclusion of all else is the be all and end all.
The EU has it's faults...many of them...but I'd rather that than the uncaring, selfish we don't like foreigners driven alternative offered in its place.

 

I'm not. Far from it but he's better than boris, gove, Farage all rolled into one. A truly evil set of tw*ts you'd ever be likely to meet.

Im voting remain because it's better for me and my future. I don't expect everyone to agree and that's their choice. be careful what you wish for however.

 

I'm not suggesting just the right wing want to leave. I'm well aware that there are many people with valid viewpoints who may want to leave. I do suggest that the exit campaign encompasses the vast majority of far right support however,
This is my last post on the subject but my reasons for remain are these:-
£350 million per week is a lie. It costs half that as we get £170 million straight back. The balance allows us access to a massive trading zone. One which, should we leave we will not be able to access without incurring costs.
I hear people say, "Oh we did alright before we went in. What's the problem?" How come when we were out we spent years trying to get in then?
I see statements like "lets's get rid of The European Court of Human Rights". As though human rights were a bad thing.
I see health and safety and workers rights bolstered by European legislation and wonder just what a Tory government will do about them should we come out.
I see right wing politicians claiming they'll spend this fictitious £350 million on the NHS. Utter rubbish. far more likely to spend it on tax cuts to bribe the electorate next time they want your vote.
I see a fragmented Europe having to deal with an ever more confident Russia going back to its old granny steps policy with no fear of concerted reprisals. Crimea would be far more likely to be repeated elsewhere.
I see the great majority of financial experts urging us to stay in. Not all, but the majority.
I see arguments that immigrants drive down wages....despite there being a minimum wage. And then I hear that they come hear to sponge off the state. Either accuse them of working or accuse them of spongeing...not both.
On immigration I hear the same old scare tactics being employed that Farage used in the election. Unsurprising as he is a major player in the out campaign. I don't want to live in a society where self interest to the exclusion of all else is the be all and end all.
The EU has it's faults...many of them...but I'd rather that than the uncaring, selfish we don't like foreigners driven alternative offered in its place.

 

You said that all you needed to know was that Boris had backed Brexit.

So it seems irrelevant to know of anything else you may have posted, by your own admission. Even though your other postings may be most insightful.

 

One of TTIP’s biggest threat to society is its inherent assault on democracy. One of the main aims of TTIP is the introduction of Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits. In effect it means unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments.

ISDSs are already in place in other bi-lateral trade agreements around the world and have led to such injustices as in Germany where Swedish energy company Vattenfall is suing the German government for billions of dollars over its decision to phase out nuclear power plants in the wake of the Fukushima disaster in Japan. Here we see a public health policy put into place by a democratically elected government being threatened by an energy giant because of a potential loss of profit. Nothing could be more cynically anti-democratic.

There are around 500 similar cases of businesses versus nations going on around the world at the moment and they are all taking place before ‘arbitration tribunals’ made up of corporate lawyers appointed on an ad hoc basis, which according to War on Want’s John Hilary, are “little more than kangaroo courts” with “a vested interest in ruling in favour of business.”

Public services, especially the NHS, are in the firing line. One of the main aims of TTIP is to open up Europe’s public health, education and water services to US companies. This could essentially mean the privatisation of the NHS.

The European Commission has claimed that public services will be kept out of TTIP. However, according to the Huffington Post, the UK Trade Minister Lord Livingston has admitted that talks about the NHS were still on the table.
section from Independent

 

If you do nothing else please view these

https://youtu.be/MqEdOUfj9dI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2pXYRz9Ymg

 

I'm very much the same - I will be voting Remain because I'm convinced it's best for me.
Look at what the investment markets have done in the last week or so because the vote has become too close to call.
If people think that this has no consequence to them I think they're burying their heads in the sand.
I completely understand the migration argument but also believe that reform of this is better tackled from within rather than from outside.

 

Yep 10 out of 230 Labour MPs
Similar ratio of unions

 

Yes you're right ...people prepared to stand against the party whip and the threat of deselection at the next election implies a courage of conviction...not doing what you're told , or even being in the minority , does not necessarily make you wrong .
Benn stood against the same odds in 1975...history has proved him right . Read his comments from the time .

 

That's totally wrong.
There's no threat of deselection nor hanging,drawing or quartering of said participants .
Its pretty much same as the other parties ie a party line with freedom for individuals.
I suspect your being a little mischievous there.

 

TTIP is an important reason why we should stay in the EU as France have pretty much killed it whereas our govt. Was instrumental in seating it up.

Plus George Monbiot argues after Brexit we would end up with an American version:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/15/european-union-eu-britain-sovereignty

 

Yes, it's paid for by taxation. If less people are working then they collect taxes. Consequently have less to spend. Do you understand how it works