Hourihane and Winnall

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by RedAllOver, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. Red

    RedAllOver Well-Known Member

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    So it's been said tonight that they don't want to sign new contracts at the moment

    A lot of people on Twitter panicking about this, but whilst it would be great to get them to sign new contracts, they are within their rights to do this.

    It's also been said that they're not disillusioned and are still motivated, which is great

    But clearly their thinking is this:
    Whilst they're in the Championship now, they may not be in a year's time, so tying themselves down to a long contract with us may see them stuck in a League One team in a year

    Should we stay up, there is every chance that they'll sign new deals, like Hammill has done this season

    If the worst does come to the worst and we go down, they will no doubt leave. But even though we won't have made any direct profit out of them, the part they played in promotion, worth £6 million, will have made their time here more than value for money

    The conundrum may come in January. If we're doing well, say we're 14th, and a reasonable offer for them comes in (considering their contract situations, that is), do we sell or keep them, assuming they still don't want new deals then? Personally I'd say keeping them would be better in that situation because staying up would be far more valuable, even if they were to leave for nothing next summer.

    Two players in the final years of their contracts who we hopefully can get to sign new deals are Scowen and Watkins. Vital but underrated players in my opinion
     
  2. Sam

    SambaTyke Well-Known Member

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    Although I understand the club's view on this situation, I also find it a tad concerning. If you look at our recruitment policy/business model, then for me they key to its success is getting financial reward for developing players. We have to cash in on players to feed the system. It would be great to have Winnall and Hourihane for another season, but if they then leave on a free, how do we then go and buy the next Winnall? We're relying on the players showing loyalty and/or finding a gem out of nowhere.

    I would find the sale of Winnall or Hourihane this summer very demoralising, damaging and extremely unpalatable. But if this recruitment policy is to work, we do have to sell players when their stock is at its highest. We'd get a token bid in January, so it's probably a safe bet that those two will leave on a free or possibly sign a new deal. Maybe it's worth the risk this season, but if say Bradshaw nets 15 goals and attracts interest next summer, we really have to probably sell him to enable us to get the next young player to develop. If we were in League One, perhaps transfer fees for players is less important because we could pick up a Jon Akinde or Paddy Madden for 200-300k and go again. But in this league, replacements for our best players will cost 500-750k or more. So although I totally get where Cryne is coming from and I support the idea of keeping Winnall and Hourihane, risking not getting any money for them, we do at some point have to cash in on players. It's the only way to enable us to continually invest in the next exciting prospect.
     
  3. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I think we should be looking to sell them. To allow the model we are following it makes no sense to allow your assets to walk away for nothing. So I would be looking to recycle and replace myself.
     
  4. Marc

    Marc Administrator
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    it is what it is. i very much doubt they will be sold this season. certainly not this window. however i do think winnall will get a rude awakening. i don't think he's as good as he thinks he is. not top 6 championship. definitely don't think he's PL. he might find himself asking for a new contract, when these other clubs don't materialise..
     
  5. Red

    RedAllOver Well-Known Member

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    You could argue Bradshaw and Moncur are replacements. Staying up would net far more than their sales. We wouldn't get £6 million for two players with 1 year left on their contracts
     
  6. Hem

    Hemsworth Tyke Well-Known Member

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    Tin hat time Marc.

    It's going to be interesting. Can't say I see anything in his game that will trouble Championship defenders. People will remember and remind him especially away from home if they aren't happy
     
  7. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree about Winnall. Though if we are to succeed in following this model we have to be more ruthless on the selling side of the business.
     
  8. Marc

    Marc Administrator
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    just to be clear, i'm not having a pop at sam winnall here. i just don't think he'll make such an impression in the champ. that anyone significantly better than us will come in for him. that said, i massively hope he proves me wrong, scores 20 goals and moves to a PL club..
     
  9. Whi

    Whitey Guest

    Looking forward to watching them both for a third campaign and hoping they deliver in spades as they've done already in campaigns one and two. It's in their interests to do so. And Adam Hammill is proof that it's okay to keep your options open, proof that not knowing which way to go in terms of your next career step doesn't have to hamper performances and proof that just because options are open doesn't mean said player wants out and won't eventually extend their BFC careers.

    I hope Sam and Conor are given the same support in their quests to perform for BFC in the same outstanding fashion that Hammill received last season. Being appreciated/loved in any walk of life is lovely, isn't it?

    For a lad who has scored 37 goals for us in 92 appearances, a lad who has consistently scored goals at every level played at, he doesn't half get written off. Personally, I've enjoyed having such a prolific striker on the books. It looks as though we've added another one too. Looking forward to seeing how both fare in this higher division as I am Hourihane who it astounds me is still here. Happily astounded. You Reds.
     
  10. Mat

    Mateo Corbo Well-Known Member

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    I think Hecky and Cryne summed it up perfectly tonight. We don't necessarily need to get a fee for them to be financially rewarding. Both Hourihane and winnall played a large part in getting us promoted this season and therefore it could be argued they justify the money spent. If they continue to perform at a high standard for another year then they have been a sound investment regardless of whether we receive a fee for them or not. In addition, as Hecky stated, the fact these lads want to play at the highest level means that only having one year left on their contract would have no effect on their desire to play well. And it could even be argued that a move to a big club may be a further motivational factor to performing in the championship, which would only benefit us on the field.
     
  11. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Definitely no criticism of either Sam or Conor from me. My two favourite players. They have spearheaded revitalising the club are are crucial to our futures either on the pitch or financially. And again I would never criticise anyone for being ambitious or having faith in their own abilities. I think Conor in particular will do very well and Sam's positional sense won't desert him because we have changed divisions. My comments were only about the clarity of our recruitment strategy.

    The knob at Peterborough is just that a knob but he operates their version of a similar recruitment strategy with ruthlessness and efficiency and in terms of finances very successfully. I take the argument that the financial rewards could be in terms of progress on the pitch which is a riskier though potentially more rewarding one.
     
  12. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator
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    Without knowing the details of what contract we might offer its a bit hard to have much opinion but I cant say I blame them
    At the moment they have no idea how the club or they will perform next year. The "safe" option would be to sign a contract extension with us but we will not be able to offer silly money or guarantees of 2nd tier football in 1 years time.

    If they are backing their abilities they know if they play well in the Championship -regardless of how Barnsley do they will have good options in the Championship next season if they are free agents. If Barnsley are doing well there is nothing to stop them signing during the season

    Clearly though if someone comes in with a very good offer the club would need to consider it carefully. Personally I would like to see both stay - but Hourihane in particular looks to me like he has potential to play in the prem
     
  13. Men

    Menai Tyke Well-Known Member

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    We messed this one up ourselves. We should have entered discussions last season, but I imagine cos we at one point through we might be in a rello battle we didn't bother.

    Odd one for me is Conor. He's changed his mind he was in the Chronicle just before the play off final saying he wanted to stay long term regardless of what happened but now he's changed his mind it would seem. No hostility from me to either player we allowed this situation to manifest itself really.
     
  14. Marc

    Marc Administrator
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    How did we mess it up though? They won't sign a new contract. I imagine they would have been even less likely last season, if they thought it could tie them to League 1 football.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Red

    RedAllOver Well-Known Member

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    If they're not wanting to sign new deals in the Championship there's no way they'd have signed one in League 1
     
  16. Men

    Menai Tyke Well-Known Member

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    Because we waited until the last season of their contract before we even tried to extend their contracts. Can't really blame em if we aren't willing to back them till it's too late then people get the face on with them that they won't extend now it's too late.
     
  17. Gally

    Gally Administrator
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    I think Patrick explained this last night. To buy a finished article, like Winnall and Hourihane is going to be cost prohibitive. We'd have to sell for a sum that allowed us to go out and buy a player of the same calibre. Our plan is to have a conveyor belt of players that we develop that slot in and replace the Hourihane's and Winnalls as they are either sold or come to the end of their contract.
     
  18. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

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    Heckingbottom made the point about Hammill - he did last year what Winnall & Hourihane are doing now - he stayed. It is not a given that they will go.
     
  19. JLWBigLil

    JLWBigLil Well-Known Member

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    Excellent and pertinent point.
     
  20. pon

    pontyender Well-Known Member

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    The knob at Peterborough has probably cost them promotion by being so ruthless and efficient. I think you need to strike a balance, otherwise you would get nowhere.
     

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