Labour Party

As someone who considers himself a natural Labour voter I am really concerned about the obvious decline/in-fighting in what should be a clearly socialist party.
Labour have lost ground in the last few years simply because they have stagnated as a progressive force. Scotland has been lost to Labour because Scottish working-class people rightly came to see Labour as a mirror of the Conservatives. The SNP were more progressive. The same is happening in Wales. People up and down the country are looking for alternatives to the Conservatives but Labour has let them down. This has been a long time coming... leaking votes to the SNP, leaking votes to the Greens, leaking votes to UKIP, and, three or four years ago, leaking votes to the BNP. Labour has not been relevant for a while simply because they have offered nothing as an alternative in any practical way to the Tories. They have sung off the same hymn sheet as the Tories. An absoulte disgrace for a party formed to defend the rights of the weakest in society. The desire to simply get power has meant that the Labour Party has forgotten what it stands for and taken for granted it's traditional support. That's the reason people are deserting Labour. They will continue to desert Labour as long as the PLP, with their heads in the sand, continue to back Tory policies like the welfare bill because they think it will win them power.
Jeremy Corbyn is not my 'ideal' leader because in this day and age, when you still need to put yourself on traditional media and look 'cool' and in command of your soundbytes, he is not the greatest at that in my opinion. He's not a smiling, smug, media manipulator like Tony Blair. However.... Corbyn is trying to do something fundamentally sound which does make him a good leader. He is trying to encompass the frustration of the underprivileged and exploited to drive the Labour movement forward and to expose the Tories for what they are rather than to shadow what they say. For that, he deserves respect.
If Labour does not change it will be wiped out. If Labour stays the same as it is, the media will be happy but Labour will still be wiped out and traditional Labour people will vote with their feet.
As far as my local MP, Dan Jarvis, is concerned, he has had a couple of mentions on here (not as many as Dugher by the looks) and from my own experience I would like to say that he would not be my choice as a Labour candidate at the next election. There are a few reasons for this but the main one, for me, was when I was teaching at Kirk Balk Academy about four years ago I went on strike because my pay and conditions were being eroded because of 'austerity'. I emailed Dan as my union official suggested and Dan told me that I should be proud to be a teacher but, effectively, there was no support from him or Labour. Well done Dan.

 

The media and higher corporations dont want Corbyn and are stopping at nothing to push their agenda through. If people power mattered Corbyn would be leading this country and we'd have left the European Union a long time ago. But as it is we are not in control and are sleepwalking into a dark near future unless we do something drastic.

 

The Labour Party is totally redundant.
When was the last time anyone voted for them on policy rather than habit or more likely because they hate the other lot? They carry no merit whatsoever.

 

Labour Party Constitution

Its purpose is to organise and maintain in Parliament
and in the country a political Labour Party

How can you ‘maintain’ the party in Parliament when you are unable to keep the confidence of 80% of the MP’s you are meant to be leading?

The Party shall give effect, as far as may be
practicable, to the principles from time to time
approved by Party conference.

So whereas the Labour Party conference passed a motion in support of the maintenance of the nuclear deterrent, Corbyn opposes that position in the parliamentary debate, at odds with the MP’s he is supposed to be leading. Arguing that “a review is in progress” is pretty lame – he could order a review into any policy and thereby ignore his party’s position on any issue.

CLAUSE IV 2. To these ends we work for:
A. A DYNAMIC ECONOMY, serving the public
interest, in which the enterprise of the market
and the rigour of competition are joined with the
forces of partnership and co-operation to
produce the wealth the nation needs and the
opportunity for all to work and prosper with a
thriving private sector and high-quality public
services where those undertakings essential to
the common good are either owned by the public
or accountable to them

This is the revised Clause IV, voted for by the party in conference. Yet the policy Corbyn is preaching is one of widescale re-nationalisation. So in this, as in many other things, he is promoting his own views and ignoring the democratically agreed principles and policies of his party.

Brexit suggests widespread discontent with the establishment and the status quo. But I can’t for the life of me see that the maverick Corbyn is in any way fitted to lead the challenge. Nor, for that matter, do I think Owen Smith is any better suited. But the way it’s going at the moment, particularly with the distasteful tricks of McDonnell and Milne in the background, Labour seems to be becoming more irrelevant by the day.

 

I'm not sure the Scots Labour Party lost out because they were seen as an image of the Tories , my understanding is that infighting and self interest like we are seeing now in the Westminster PLP was largely the cause...perhaps Arabian Ian might have a view on that.
Dan Jarvis though does not impress me . About 18 months ago South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Exec. which is 100% Labour controlled , voted to end Rail concessions for our pensioners , leading to a pensioners group travelling in a payment strike fashion . Instead of putting pressure on SYPTE to negotiate a deal he just said he wouldn't support illegal action....useless .

 

I think the fact that the Labour Party now has half a million members makes nonsense of claims that it is "redundant".

There are massive challenges realigning the party, bearing in mind the PLP is totally out of touch with the party's core beliefs & membership, but i think the coming leadership election will actually put them to rest. A second emphatic Corbyn win will make it clear where the party is heading.
Interesting to see his only challenger is copying the bulk of his policies.

Election victory in my opinion will require a "progressive alliance" with the Lib Dems, Greens, etc to kick the Tories into the long grass. We then
need a proportional representation system like every other civilised country (YES the USA have a first past the post system too & they have the choice of Trump & Clinton). We'll end up with about 5 parties then, including a "nationalist" party, like UKIP / BNP , 2 centrist left / right parties, the Greens & a socialist party.
That would be a proper choice & people might turn out to vote, even if some of them vote for a party I despise ... that is democracy.

 

A strong opposition is one that opposes the government (i.e. at the moment the Tory Party), not one that votes with it & copies it's policies.

 

sorry but IMHO a strong opposition is one which has a chance of being elected

 

sorry, but the definition of "opposition" is to oppose

 

you can "oppose" all you want with words but if the party in power is safe in the knowledge that they are untouchable at the ballot box its pointless

 

We could send out the Under 11's for the first match against Ipswich. It would be opposition for them but it would be a fairly pointless exercise because they'd get hammered.
You can stand on the sidelines and espouse socialist principles all you like as Corbyn does (and I'm not a million miles from a lot of things he believes in) but there are simply not enough real socialists in this country to ever win him an election.

 

This is a good debate & one the Labour Party has to engage in.
If you look at the number of people who didn't vote at the last election then there are a lot of disenchanted people.
A lot of them voted "leave" in the referendum, as it was a twos up to the Tories & Labour.
A Labour Party that did very little in power for people in places like Barnsley, Grimsby, Sunderland, etc

If Labour was gonna win with a "Tory Lite" programme it would have done so in 2015, with a Tory Party at war with itself.
In truth Tories & Labour are in the same state, hence by "progressive alliance" mandate being essential.
That way you can vote left / right or somewhere in between.
If it's ******** I may as well just pull me pants down now & wait for Boris to come & roger me.

 

Mario Kempes is as likely to vote Labour, as I am to go into Labour.

You are a Tory.

Come out fella.

 

Does the electorate the labour party traditionally appeal to still exist? Fought for the rights of the miners, dockers, steel workers etc - these have long since gone. I am a staunch Labour supporter but it does need to re-evaluate itself.

I'm sure we can come back as we did in the 90's but we need to stand together - can't fight if the party is pulling itself apart

 

Who's a Tory? You don't mean me do you?!!!!

 

And here's me thinking it was because the wrong Milliband was selected to lead the party.

 

Just shows how wrong you can be don't it ?

 

Don't think I am wrong though.

 

Can't believe that people won't vote for fairer policies and choose to carry on getting kicked and robbed to feed the filthy rich by the Tories instead.
Is it because the media aided by the established men in suits keep pounding at them with claptrap fodder .
They learned a lot from Goebbels and these days people are fobbed off without even knowing it.
The race to the bottom while the fat cats lap it up are proof of that .
Corbyn policies are no more radical than the SNPs ,in fact almost identical apart from the breaking up of the UK.

People have condemned Corbyn and fairer policies for no more reason that they have been bombarded by Club Westminster and the TV media who have much to lose and the millionaires papperazzi .