Daemonising nationalism.....

Thought about this and in no way is this an attempt at controversy but noone ever mentions nationalsim nowadays on here except as a negative, xenophobic racist adjective.

Italians are fiercely patriotic. They are highly protective of the heritage, which is ironic considering 'Italy' has not been a single country that long in relative terms. The architecture , (one regions towns look very much like another) the food they eat , their preference of Italian goods over those of from other countries (even though often more expensive) all indicate national pride.
Many times we see people (not wealthy ones but ordinary families etc. choosing Italian produce in the supermarket even though it is often dearer than equivalent produce next to it sourced from other countries. I mentioned this to some Italian friends and they said that they would rather have less of something and buy 'quality' than more of a lesser product and by 'quality' they mean Italian . Tomatoes are a good example . Italian ones are preferred to Dutch or Spanish even though often up to twice the price.
Whilst there are many Audis Mercedes and BMW cars around ( status and showy as Italians still consider the Bella figura as important) the greater number of cars are Fiat Lancia and other Italian makes.
They are, certainly amongst the contadini and working people in this region, generous and welcoming and have been very supportive of migrants but the sheer volume and lack of action by the EU to help has streched that attitude to the limit. Many in this region risked, and gave, their lives helping and hiding POW in WW2 and fighting fascism. Whole families were shot in retaliation not just by Germans but Italian Fascists. English complain that we import too much, have destroyed our industries, etc but 'Buy British' campaigns have always been ignored and people for many years now prefer cheap imports with a quantity over quality 'I want everything now' attitude. We reap what we sew and it is sad we aways blame governments for the failings of British to support Britain. Italy does have huge problems with corruption, bureaucracy, inefficiencies banking crises so it is not all sweetness and light, but looking in it seems that we the British people are as much to blame as our elected Governments for where we find ourselves.
I know it is far more complex than this but I was just making the point that certain types of nationalism and national pride are not necessarily evil and can make for a better cohesive society than this headlong rush to globalisation.

 

Nationalism swings both ways, you can have people who are extremely proud of their own country but that doesn't make them racist because they still accept other countries and other peoples, then you have other people who are racialist nationalists who believe that anyone who isn't from their country is inferior. Nationalism is a two edge sword, there isn't much wrong with being a Liberal Nationalist on the contrary to other types of nationalists, unfortunately all nationalists get tarred with the same brush

 

I'd prefer thoughts on demonising Phil Gridlet myself.

 

It's all just a notion really. An illusion.

 

Scottish & Welsh nationalism are fine just not English nationalism as that's racist.

 

English nationalism has a streak of superiority, aggression and dominance about it, that's why it's rightly demonised.

 

Sort of agree but my OP was trying to distinguish between patriotic nationalistic views and the kind you are describing. However your post makes me think. Is there much difference when push comes to shove between the kind of nationalism you describe and the chip on shoulder "we are bitter" displayed by certain anti English Scottish Nationalists . Germany aggrieved at the Punitive WW1 reparation settlement gave rise to Nationalistic fervour under the NSDP and Hitler who used anti Semitism simply as a tool to whip up Nationalistic fervor which led to the horrors of the Holocaust. That is the type of Nationalism I believe you are referring to and what you fear the extreme right parties in France Austria are trying to emulate now.

In Italy it is the Five Star movement who are citing Patriotism and anti EU Nationalism, but is much more benign. Italians Certainly all those I have encountered, do not suffer the illusion of superiority. Yes they are proud of the culture and heritage but are quite inward looking and dont have aspirations much beyond their own borders which is the opposite end of the Nationalistic Spectrum

 

No one ever mentioned nationalism in the first place. We won a game a football yesterday you boring sod!

 

And yet you felt the need to reply

 

There is an incestuous relationship to me between nationalism, the monarchy, the class system, the influence of the rich and powerful and the insularity we have as a race which sometimes crosses the border into racism. I'd toss in Britain First and Jo Cox. but there's racing at Huntingdon, Kelso and Fairyhouse to consider this aft so no time to go into all this now.

 

F.F.S. admin give Mussolinityke his own sub-section on the forum.

On the back of a great win, this boring tw@t is at it again with his crap political *****.

 

elements of it certainly do,but i'd also say the same about the scots and welsh,they too have extreme nationalists.

 

And yet you chose to comment. Same answer as usual If it bores you ignore it. Others have posted comments or perhaps you only like political posts that agree with your narrow view of the world??

P.S. 'name calling' hardly indicates an intellect worth debating with.

 

Nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage, whether that is town, county, country or more. But we also have to realise that the region we are so proud of is exactly the same as any other region - It has good bits and bad bits, good people and bad people, and historic events to be proud of and regret. Where we are born is entirely due to centuries of history, politics and luck, but we do have the option to choose where to live.

We are (mostly) living in or from a small town in Yorkshire, and we should support our town and our nation, but that does not mean that we should be disrespectful of others views or backgrounds. That does not mean that we cannot joke or banter with people from other areas or of different backgrounds, but it has to be mutual and mindful of everyone's feelings - so no joking about religion if it offends the other person.

In my personal opinion, what we often term nationalism is actually a form of superiority complex based on national or racial identity. This goes from being a positive supportive pride in their background to a negative criticism and scapegoating of others based on fear and ignorance. This is what Hitler used to get to power, and what to some extent is happening now, with the media blaming the immigrants and benefits scroungers and the rise in popularity of UKIP, Britain First and the other toxic parties.

I have said this several times before on here, but I would treat my country of birth (or residence), like many people currently treat their own town or county. Be proud of it, support the people and teams that come from it but also be respectful of others and work together to make things better for everyone.

 

Writing daily rants averaging 500 words on a football forum about anything but football hardly indicates an intellect worth debating with, just crippling loneliness and lack of purpose. Si thi!

 

You seem to respond to many of the political items on this forum many not mine looking back over your posts. 500 daily posts (not rants) is something of an an exaggeration. You also are incapable of debate because you try to make it personal. and personal insults seem to be your only answer. Like I said, if my posting bothers you just ignore them.

How do you conclude that I suffer from crippling loneliness and lack of purpose? You know absolutely nothing about me. My purpose is apparently to annoy you and I am clearly highly successfu at it.

Like I said, if my posting bothers you just ignore them.

 

I can never take you seriously mate. You live in Italy yet post implicitly about British or English pride and how the UK needs to be more nationalistic and curb immigration. If it's not a wind up then it's hilarious.

 

Nationalism and National pride, if there was a gold medal given out for that then it must go to Nigel Farage one minuet he's spouting we've got our country back, and then I read he's planing to go live in America to team up with his mate Trump, Silver medal go's to Nigel Lawson remember him the old Tory he was all over the T.V. telling us to vote for Brexit and yet old two face lives in France.

 

You really shouldn't generalise so I will! If you come from a big country and you're a nationalist, you're generally a bit of tw*t.

 

You are making that up. Living in Italy ...what has that to do with it?? I am a UK citizen and National, my family live in UK . Where Have I posted that UK needs to be more Nationalistic and curb immigration. Yes, I am opposed to Free movement of people (except refugees) i.e. people migrating without the means to support themselves from the day they arrive in a new country. However, that is a general principal and no exclusive to UK migration. That is NOT the same as "curbing migration"

I laugh at the muppets on here who want free movement and then criticse me and others for living outside the UK. One cretin said anyone retiring abroad should have their pension stopped whilst arguing in favour of free movement.