The way I see what's happening at Barnsley FC.

Our whole strategy as a club who want to be self efficient, is to buy players as cheap as possible, on wages that fit into a budget set at a modest level, develop them into better players, use them to move the club forward, and sell them on for a profit if possible. But due to the small out lay in terms of transfer fee and wages we can also afford to let some players contracts run down once they become unaffordable to us, As long as we get the main part of he plan which is move the club forward. with this latest crop of players, we've achieved our goal, Hourihane, Scowen, Watkins, Winnall, and Mawson have all moved the club forward, and we've benefitted greatly as a club from these players, to date they've given us, brilliant entertainment on the pitch, two victories at Wembley one resulting in promotion, the other gave us our first trophy since 1912. And we've also got over £6.5M to reinvest into the club. Our coaching staff have helped Sam Winnall and others improve to a level were we just can't afford them anymore, we've probably doubled our money on Sam or at least got it back, and he's helped get us up to 8th in the championship. I hope we can do that with every player we sign to be honest.

In my opinion our strategy as worked perfectly over the last two seasons, long may it continue.

 

The trouble is though is that when you are fishing for diamonds in a pond of turds, eventually you'll end up catching a turd and not a diamond.

It's not as possible to fish in league two and non league for players to go straight in at this level. We aren't a league one club anymore and if we don't want to be one in the near future, the strategy needs adjusting in keeping with our status. We have to look a little higher and perhaps spend a couple of quid more. I'm not talking multi millions but the higher we get the better calibre we require.

I have no problem selling players on, for cash injection and for them to grow. But selling for peanuts to a club about 12 miles away and only two places above us wasn't part of the strategy as far as I understand it.

Stones, Holgate, Mawson. All examples of deals that sadly lose us talent but gain us money to secure our future for a year or two.

Winnall wasn't like that. I don't fully blame the club, he had their pants down to be fair, but this particular deal wasn't about the strategy, it was the club being a little naive.

But it's done. Onward and upward.


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Two point about your post:

1) I think we have found if fair share of 'turds' over the last two years. Not every signing has been a wonderful success. Look at all the loan signings last summer which didn't work out. It may prove that Lee, Kpekawa and Kayden Jackson prove not to be good enoigh. The good thing is that failures are are not overly expensive gambles which means most failures so far have gone under the radar.

2) Again, about the club being naive. It could be said we were to an extent. However as Hecky said in his press conference yesterday if we had given all our players new contracts it was possible that they weren't good enough for the Championship. We could have found ourselves with players on relatively big wages who we want to replace. I'm sure there are ways the club would do a situation like this in the future, but I certainly don't think they're entirely to blame for this one (like you've said). We certainly couldn't go handing out £20k a week deals to one or two because then all players would want that much. We'd only need 10 players on £20k a week for a year to wipe out the Stones and Mawson money even disregarding other costs.

 

I agree. Even if conor goes we shouldn't change the strategy which has served us so well. Recruit young talent within a set wage structure and develop it. If it wants to move then sell it on, bank the profit and we survive.
Things might need tweaking if we keep progressing. Go for more expensive targets. Change the wage structure etc. Look at Southampton. They're doing alright. They did have some full on financial investment initially but they operate a similar model. Look at them and it shows just how successful we've been given that we didn't have a simar cash injection.
Re sam and conor. It's all been said. My view is that no player is bigger than our club. Let them go. Hope Winnall never ever scores again. Ever. Ever. As long as conor doesn't go to the piggery I wish him all the success in the world.
We move on.

 

The strategy is good it needs fine tuning. At the mid point of a players contract a decision needs to be made about the success or failure of that pkayed and either new terms offered or the pkayed moved on. No player should be left to trundle along if they have proved themselves. Peterborough ran a similar strategy well for years though eventually picked up more turds than diamonds. I think Hecky was alluding to summat along those lines yesterday.

 

If we sell 1 or two players per season for a substantial profit then fair enough but to try and replace Conor, Sam, Robbo, Scowen , Bree, Watkins and Davies in one summer is nigh on impossible. Its all on a knife-edge.

 

I agree with you. The fine tuning you suggest is needed. In operating the model we have picked up some turds along with the diamonds. Would be interesting to see the ratio. For every Winnall are there two tutors for instance?

 

I think you have to look at the entire picture to judge if Sams position fits the strategy...

We signed him from The lower league with potential to take us higher - tick
We pay a fee that potentially allowed us to get a financial return on the investment - tick
We wanted him to perform on the pitch and help us achieve success - big tick
We made him a better player and attractive to others and delivered a better future for him that helps us attract players in the first place - tick
We secure a strong mid season position to enable us to manage risk of unforeseen or high risk things in the Jan window - tick
He backed the club into a corner and demanded a move, right now to our rivals - open

Overall Sam fitted our strategy well, not perfectly, but very well. I think many knew deep down Sam, especially of late, had his head on bigger and better things FOR HIM. Didnt S****horpe fans have the same issue when he joined us? Many are judging the emotions of the situation and not the facts. I admire and respect the clubs position in situations where fans are overly emotional around a specific topic that the club has to manage in a professional business like and footballing way. time will tell how relevant the Sam situation has been to us.

 

Well summarised. The ticks in those boxes work for me.
Re Winnall. His favourite club is arsenal. It won't happen but if they came in for him he'd leave the piggery in a shot. You're right. We did it to scunny. Wednesday have done it to us. Somebody will do it to them. And on it goes.

 

I agree with most of what you've written.

One strategy some clubs use are contracts which are guaranteed for a shorter period (e.g. 1-2 years) but with appearance related extensions,. That way the club is not stuck with a player not doing the business and therefore not being picked. The players being picked get their contracts extended. You can incentivise by having the extension(s) for larger values e.g. years 1 and 2 £10k, year 3 £12k etc.

 

It's madness isn't it? It's the unpleasant side of football, when you realise that your hero in reality couldn't give a toss and just wants more money. We did it to Scunny, as you say, and also to Plymouth, Wycombe and Walsall. We may do it to Grimsby.

That's why I don't get worked up about it. It's happened countless times before and it will happen. It will happen with Conor, either now or in June. We'll do it to someone else soon.

It's sad but true. You Reds!

 

Correct. Although in practise, no one will do it to Wednesday re Winnall because his next move will be backwards.

 

I think there will a number of normally rationale people on this bbs who will look back at their contributions to the over dramatic madness and ******** of the last few days and silently cringe in embarressment. I think the club got it spot on. Again.

 

Good debate going on in this thread wats happened to this forum

 

Excellent opening post, followed by a thread of debate & counter argument at the same level. Respectful with no personal abuse. The BBS at it's best, a big thumbs up to all the contributors.

 

I think thats true. Football is a sport, its competitive and attracts passionate fans. That means emotions take a significant position in peoples opinions, views and reaction. A lot of whats been said is exactly that. People have packed in supporting us, maybe for a few hours, abandoned hope and will be supporting again passionately at 3pm today. All part of the game.

In contrast, Hecky has been focussed on selecting todays team, deflecting the furore away from players and building attention and actions around winning a football match. I would guess Patrick from his position of ill health has been coordinating people to fill in the gaps left by Linton and Maurice in turn is doing the same. All part of the game.

I can remember being gutted when Hirst went to Wednesday, when Currie left for Forrest (which didn't work and a 2nd spell back less successful), when Geddis became a success at Birmingham after leaving us and when i felt Ashley Wards departure to Blackburn was undervalued. Strikers seem to have a bigger touch point emotionally, well for me anyway. In a modern world where loyalty isn't an integral part of the game we shouldn't let this get to us.

There will be another Winnall as there was another Currie, Hirst and Ward. We will move on and need to trust our club. They will always frustrate us as fans and never do what we want (after all which 'fan' should then listen to and act upon).

and now its Game Day

 

I agree.

 

It's a pleasure to even the post after yours.

 

I am in no doubt that this is the philosophy of the club and that it has worked a treat over the past twelve months and should continue to do so. All I think is that we might be a little more 'savvy' over the practice of selling players on at a slightly more realistic price. Maybe that's what the board ended up doing with Sam. Perhaps we got a better price and other additions, such as sell-on clause, bonus if Wednesday are promoted, bonus for games played and goals scored etc. It might have ended up as a much better deal for us than the media would have us believe. 'Undisclosed' is ok by me - good practice. The reason for needing to be more 'savvy' is that we are now a championship team and would expect to remain so into 2017-18, so we will expected to pay higher transfer fees and award higher wages. The club has moved forward magnificently over the past year. It has been 'win-win' right down the line for players, fans and the whole team. Done on a limited budget, that progress has been outstanding. Talk about 'value added'.' We must be top of any list of clubs who have done that on our wage structure. Well done, management, board, coaches and players. There is a touch of bitterness about the manner of Sam leaving, but he should reflect that it was Barnsley FC who developed him into a pretty much million pound a year earner (before tax, I'm afraid, Sam). If we can do the same with Omar Bogle, or whoever else might come in, then great. Prospective young players know they are joining a club with an outstanding track record of developing young lower league hopefuls into top flight stars. More of it. Bring it on! Who is next in through the turnstile?

 

Everybody has had a night's sleep and some of us have had a few beers.