The Plan

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Conan Troutman, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    7,146
    Likes Received:
    3,326
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I know where you're coming from there. I asked a similar question sometime back.

    Maybe the club needs more of a commitment from the casual fans that only turn out for yer Wembley and cup runs, before they consider moving on to the next stage which may involve buying in and spending a bit on wages?

    Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk
     
  2. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    27,976
    Likes Received:
    22,597
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    For me personally, it's less of an interpretation and more of a replay of what i've previously heard the Club management say: -

    - Invest in young, hungry lower league players
    - Develop that talent into saleable assets
    - Sell players only on terms which benefit the Club
    - Continued investment into the academy, to develop homegrown players
    - Retain long-term status at Championship level
    - Ultimately build a Club which is financially self-sufficient

    We can do better and should strive to get better every day. There will also be bumps in the road along the way. But given where we are today, i'd say the plan is working pretty well, so far. To many fans, this will be the best they've ever seen.
     
  3. eas

    eastlondontyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I think being more ambitious is the next step - but in fairness I think we are doing that.

    Could we have signed a player like Mowatt 18 months ago, or even at the start of this season? When we went down to L1 we couldn't have got a player like Bradshaw to develop but we spent money at the start of this year to get him.

    Would be very easy to fritter away the money we've accumulated with a couple of big fees and contracts. I'd be happy with a period of steadily improving the quality of players we're going for.

    Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
     
  4. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Maybe that the casual supporters will only come if we are that bit more successful. If we could get into The Premiership the ground would be too small for us but we won't have that problem unless we get there. It's a bit chicken and egg I suppose.

    I don't think anyone expected us to be in seventh come the close of the window some might argue that the plan has been to successful. For me, we are where we are because of the manager not because of a policy of developing and selling players.
     
  5. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We couldn't have signed Mowatt eighteen months ago because we were in league one and had a complete prat for a manager.

    I think he is the right type of signing btw, but this squad needs strengthening and it would be wrong not to reinvest. In my opinion of course.
     
  6. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I get all that - it's the second to last point I'm wondering about.
     
  7. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    18,456
    Likes Received:
    19,232
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Leeds
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Self sufficiency.

    The money isn't 'under the mattress' for a rainy day when we will get it out and spend it at a desperate time, it's to drip feed and use a little bit everyday to keep our club going without getting into debt.
     
  8. andytyke

    andytyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,036
    Likes Received:
    2,835
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Featherstone
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Maybe we gradually we will be able to buy a better quality player and offer better wages as well as still scouting the lower leagues. but its early days yet
     
  9. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,811
    Likes Received:
    2,864
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    You already know about the plan to buy young, coach them on and sell them on at a profit, so I will not go on about it. That policy has a second and equally important aspect. A young player is ambitious but he has time on his side. He can afford to take a lower wage if he thinks that he might benefit in the long term, and our record of selling players towards the end of their contracts at reasonable prices, builds the confidence in young players that they will be allowed to move on at the right time with a reasonable benefit on both sides. Contracts are never written to the benefit of one side only, and we must accept that our fear of the possible long term effects of signing a player on good money and on a 4 year contract is a risk that we took once before, a risk that led to administration. It is a risk that we are now averse to. But we must accept that contracts represent a balance of risk between two parties.

    Similarly, there is also a balance to be struck for loan players, something else that many on the BBS do not like. Loan players tend to be young professionals or players getting over a long term injury. Whatever, the players sign for us because they are looking for game time. We get a player of a better quality than we could normally afford on our wage structure because the loaning club pays part of his wages, they get game time at a better level than U23. At the end of the loan, the player returns to his club and we have no future commitment or chance to benefit from selling him on. Yet again, another balance that is struck between the parties to the contract.

    The "what next", question is more difficult to answer. It is unlikely that this season's windfall will be repeated on a regular basis. Those running the club will have that at the front of their minds. It is not unusual for companies not connected with sport to manage their business according to benchmarks. For instance, one benchmark might be that player wages should not exceed 100% of budgeted gate receipts. That is, in the long term, the club must try to live within its means because costs can rapidly run away from us when we hit a bad patch unless we "repair the roof when the sun is shining". If have no idea how the club benchmarks its performance, but I would expect it to have more than one benchmark. The board will be looking at sustainability in the long term. I know that our success looks like an overnight thing, but I guess that the policies that are behind the success are well established. Most of my contributions to the BBS seem to end in a call for patients, just as I was calling for patience when we were at our lowest ebb. But success is never over night, no matter what it looks like. We would all like another season in the Premier League, but make no mistake, all the cash that we receive will disappear into players' pockets, and we need to be doubly ready for that jump. If it comes, it comes. If it does not, we keep trying.
     
  10. pon

    pontyender Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,747
    Likes Received:
    3,836
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Barnsley
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    It's a lot simpler than anyone has said. It's called self sufficiency. There is no mattress stuffing. The money will disappear on the day to day running of the club over a period of time. We've just had a spurt of sales and there might be one or two more. There's no guarantee we'll succeed in doing that with a new batch of players though. It might be years before we make a decent profit on a player again.
     
  11. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2005
    Messages:
    54,699
    Likes Received:
    28,604
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    That isn't the plan though is it? What we are seeing now is one stage of the plan. As of yet we have seen no evidence of the next stage and as far as I'm aware haven't been told what that stage is?

    Stage 1: buy cheap
    Stage 2: sell and pocket a load of cash
    Stage 3: buy cheap replacements
    Stage 4: sell and pocket a load of cash

    As far as I'm aware we are at stage 3 with quite a few players but surely the plan isn't to simply repeat stage 3 and 4 forever. What is the planned outcome and the planned end result? The money surely can't just be banked forever
     
  12. RASCAL

    RASCAL Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hopefully it's to get in the premier league and buy Conor back.
     
  13. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    23,677
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    HERE.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    The money won't be banked forever it will be used to improve squad, structure, facilities including an expensive academy ,the money although sounds a lot will soon be swamped by the everyday running of the club .
    In the past this has been done by the Cryne family and by having its own reserves will hopefully keep us on an even keel for a while
    Our good fortune although working brilliantly nay at some point stall and that's when the resources come in .
    We haven't made that much money that it will just sit in a bank for years and years , at least not yet hopefully.
    We are securing our future for a little while if our policy continues for a while and we accumulate a real surplus I'm sure the club will invest in the future wisely .
    The throwing it back into players and agents pockets as soon as we get it and without guarantees ( which in football there are non anyway.) Are long gone .
    I'm sure the club will have proper plan should a
    real surplus arrive but to plan for it would be complacent imo.
     
  14. Rosco

    Rosco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,340
    Likes Received:
    2,835
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Optimist
    Location:
    Born in Birdwell, living in Sin (well...Cheshire).
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)

    I guess when that day comes, we can start to offer better contracts.
     
  15. Sopwith Camel

    Sopwith Camel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2009
    Messages:
    12,372
    Likes Received:
    5,988
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Present
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    To search out and recruit young talent, to bring though and sell on for a profit. Which both are happening this month...For the longevity of the club..

    Any success or failure... will only be temporary cos of the sheer turnover of players..
     
  16. J...

    J... Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I like this plan!
     
  17. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I agree with a lot of this.

    A lot of people have said sustainability but what does that actually mean? If we have funded the running of the club from gate receipts and commercial activity this season then we are already self sustaining. We don't know what the wage bill to turnover is, but if it's less than 100% then we are self sustaining. I suppose even if we have to use the transfer fees to plug any gaps we are still self sustaining as long as we don't receive any subsidies from Patrick Cryne. I'm sure we can all agree that Cryne has not needed to dig into his pockets.

    Supposedly £5m was wiped from our turnover when we got relegated in 2014. I would wager that being back in the Championship has seen an increase in turnover of over £5m and I would be surprised if our expenditure has increased by more than this amount. Obviously I'm just surmising. If we are relegated again (god forbid) we will be governed by your old favourite SCMP so in theory we shouldn't need to worry about overspending.

    I'm waffling a bit but I would hope that we are in a position to reinvest some of the transfer fees/sell ons we have received in the last six months.
     
  18. jedstar

    jedstar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    6,698
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Ardsley
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    As we're never going to be in the market for players who cost more than a few million (seeing as that usually means high wages), I'd like to see some proper investment in the facilities.

    Spruce up the concourses (properly, not just some half-arsed paint job) and rebuild the West Stand as a proper main stand, doesn't necessarily have to have that many seats, but provide better media facilities, more executive boxes, maybe even one that could double up as a TV studio.
     
  19. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    23,677
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    HERE.
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Totally agree
    West stand needs to be re galvanised , a reception area to start with on Grove Street instead of the bricks and glass toppings greeting the media etc.
     
  20. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,469
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Professional Football Fan
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We can agree from time to time. Won't happen though. You would have to admit Cryne has done sod all to the ground in thirteen years.
     

Share This Page