Home Form This Season

You've got to pack in with this *****. Why don't you blame Cryne for not being rich enough, or for not seeking investment.

Bournemouth had the lowest attendances in the division when they were promoted as Champions.

I'll say it again - if the club needs all the money it can get, forego your senior concession.

 

Why don't you stop being silly and grow up. If you really want to understand a problem, and aren't just content to try and score childish points on your scoreboard, you really have to start engaging your brain. Now, consider the points that I made in my post and try to make some constructive contribution, free of motives and free of meaningless comparison to some other club that has hit a jackpot that we are unlikely to hit. I am all for constructive discussion and debate with thinking adults, but I refuse to engage with you if you insist on taking debate into the playground.

 

I thought you were referring to his incorrect usage of 'their'.

 

Every time someone discusses any level of under performance at the club you start harping on about attendances. I am pointing out to you that Bournemouth were promoted as Champions with an average attendance of almost 4,000 less than ours this season. Preston have averaged 1,100 less than us this season but have finished higher in the table with a bigger budget. Why? They both had benefactors. If we were getting 20,000 a week it wouldn't make enough of a difference. Dragging a point out over six paragraphs does not make a post any more valid and you are wide of the mark when you continue to blame supporters. The simple fact is that the people at the top of the club are not rich enough.

As for the point scoring, do you not consider it a tad hypocritical to say that people are unwilling to pay what is required, yet most people are paying a lot more than you?

 

Dint notice that - well spotted. Standards are slipping.

 

Thank-you for pointing that out. I have corrected it now.

 

The amount of money that I pay for my season ticket has absolutely no bearing what so ever upon the accuracy of my statement, and it is, or it should be, the accuracy of my statement that is being debated and not my right to say it. If truth and reason are dependent upon the amount that an individual financially commits to a cause, then truth and reason can never be the sole reasons for debate and truth and reason can never be guaranteed at the conclusion of the debate. If your principle was correct, then none of the clubs advisors could be believed, because after all, they are being paid for their knowledge and advice, rather than paying in order to give it.

So lets us concentrate on truth and reason. No-one would be happier than I if a multi-billionaire with no other motive than the success and well-being of Barnsley FC were to materialise out of the blue. It would mean that we could leave the principles that I have repeatedly outlined behind us. It would mean that we would be able to shop for a much improved standard of player who was already game ready at our level and it would mean that we were able to compete on wages. It would transform our environment. However, the fact that club A has such a person, or club B is in a similar situation to us but is able to pay more means nothing, because for every club A there are 40 clubs in similar environments who have no billionaire and for every club B there are 40 clubs in similar environments who pay less. We have no idea why the billionaire chose Club A, but it has absolutely no bearing on why a similar football loving billionaire should chose Barnsley. In the same way, we have no idea what the financial circumstances are behind Club B spending more on its player wages, but we do know why our club does not (see our Financial Accounts at Companies House). These things are not magic. You cannot wave a wand and they happen. In that respect, our club is much more easily understood than those other clubs are. Our club is run with the long term aim of breaking even and according to the long term principles that I have described. Logic and reason govern the management of our club, even though logic and reason may not rule elsewhere. Until the rules change, we are stuck with logic and reason.

You seem to believe that Mr Cryne is deliberately turning away a queue of willing billionaires with the right motives. Mr Cryne is not a well man. In the circumstances, what possible reason would he have for turning all this money away. And yet, you continue to rely upon the imminent appearance of a fairy godfather, one with lots of money and little idea about how to spend it, just the motivation to get rid of most of it as quickly as possible by investing in Barnsley FC. Such a billionaire, who has presumably made his money commercially has suddenly decided to dump his commercial logic, dump the profit motive and decided to spend, spend, spend. Well hopefully you will excuse me if I do not hold my breath. Until our fairy godfather arrives, our best hope of success is to continue with the plan as described. If you want to continue to hope for a fairy godfather, well be my guest. If you want me, you will find me in the real world.

 

A fair response...

 

For the size of the town Barnsley is a tremendously supported club. Based on a percentage of potential fans / attendances we do very well. We are not the best supported club in the league it used to be Burnley I'm not sure if it still is. But in terms of attendance based on this analysis we outperform both Leeds and tbe Sheffield clubs. So to accuse the town of apathy is just plain wrong.

 

I agree with you that we are relatively well supported for the size of town, the problem the club has is the demographics, I would estimate that at least 50% of our season ticket holders are either some sort of concession or a free child place.

 

Yes I'd agree about the demographics. People I trust who have knowledge about it reckon we give the largest number of free/reduced tickets in the League. The free kids tickets actually cost us money with the Efl I believe.

Unfortunately you can't make people richer/younger/older.

 

I happen to think the amount you pay has a lot of bearing on your statement. It appears my comments are irritating you and I am glad because I find yours irritating and offensive to the loyal supporters of this club.

You have gone on at length about clubs obtain a billionaire Chairman and whether I think Cryne is to blame or not. I do not know if he has ever sought investors, turned offers down or never received the slightest interest - nor do you. However, this is relevant. The fact is that Bournemouth, Preston, Brentford, Blackburn, Brentford and Wigan all have bigger budgets than we do and it has nothing to do with their attendances or how much their supporters were "willing" to pay. Bournemouth had a four figure average and won the title because they had a benefactor. End of.

You keep laying the blame at the feet of supporters, so I hope you include yourself in that. Before you criticise people who are paying more than you are, why don't you do a bit of research and ask people how much they are willing to pay before you assume they will not pay any more. You may be right. You may be surprised, but you are making assumptions.

 

This makes sense. I think that if you ignore the Premier League season, we have probably had our largest average home support of around 13500 during our more successful seasons at this level (1981/82, 1999/00) plus the season immediately following our relegation from the Prem). Completely agree that our general home support is a good proportion of the population compared to others.

In the run up to the miners strike, average home attendances were dropping, as was our league position, but I think to a level similar to what we have had this season. The year of the strike and those after the strike really did hit our home support and I'd guess took a while to recover due to a combination of things like losing the habit of going to the match, struggles to regain employment/income, and other than the odd game, didn't really consistently climb until we got towards premier league promotion. It also held up pretty well during our years in league one following administration and also the two years prior to promotion last year.



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Your comment about the amount I pay is not so much irritating as it is irrelevant, and I have explained why. I do not know who you are and I have no interest. I am interested only in your argument and whether it holds water. It seems from your comments that you keep repeating the comment only because you think that it irritates me, and that pleases you. Fair enough, enjoy your simple pleasure.

I know perfectly well what the supporters of Barnsley are like. I have been supporting the club for more than 50 years. They are contributing as much to the club as they are able or want to contribute. The money available through gate receipts is finite. It is you who has interpreted my comments as a criticism. They are not, they are an acceptance of fact. The people of Barnsley are not willing to contribute any more than they do already. Your answer to that fact is to wave a magic wand and produce a fairy godfather. My answer to that fact is to work within the principles that have been established by this management team. I hope that you stumble across a billionaire, but I'm sorry, I can't help because I don't known any. Unfortunately, I remain confident that you don't either. Never mind, I'm sure one will eventually knock on our door. In the time between now and then, we need a way of running the club. Any suggestions?

 

Any suggestions? End this conversation forthwith.

 

Thought not!

 

Nothing to do with me making any suggestions. I have pointed out to you that attendances are becoming less important in this day and age because it's all about someone pumping in cash or willing to act as a guarantor. That's why Bournemouth went up on gates of 9,900.

 

Yes, I accept that is your answer. A billionaire pays the bills. But what do we do until this billionaire turns up. Again, any suggestions?

 

No. You?

However, my suggestion would not be to hold supporters responsible for the club not having enough money.

 

I am quite happy with our current plans and progress as I have argued constantly. You seem to have put all your eggs in the billionaire's basket. All I am asking is what your plans are until said billionaire turns up. The way you are prevaricating about letting us know your interim plans, it looks like that is the full extent of your planning. Wait for a billionaire to turn up... oh and moan about the absence of said billionaire... oh and argue about whose fault it is that said billionaire has not materialised yet. Or am I wrong and you are not an empty vessel ?