The Leaders Debate Tonight

Oh I'm sorry I forgot scots weren't in the vote and so are seemingly blameless.... wouldn't be surprised if the torys were funding the SNP it's a godsend for them, Scots likely to vote labour essentially remove them from the vote and have to live under Tory leadership for a generation while the Scots blame everyone else.

 

Ian, it's all very 'England' and 'Scotland', 'Us' and 'Them' with you. We are not saying this as anything against Scotland (despite the fact you seem to be very against England) but pointing out a fact that any vote for a nationalist party is a vote for Tory, whether that be SNP or Plaid Cymru. You may not like that fact but it is the truth and getting upset or angry about it doesn't change that. I don't think about us being two separate countries at all, literally ever, we're all part of the UK and all taking part in the same election and end up with the same Prime Minister. The only thing to consider is if you want that Prime Minister to be Corbyn or May, as those are the only two options.

 

Why support such a Blairite party regardless of nationalism. Nationalist parties be they Ukip or Plaid or the Snp are the reason the tories get in and for promoting division.

 

JD I'm not upset. Well no more than some here who have pointed out that my vote gave them a Tory govt whilst ignoring the fact that more folk in England voted Tory rather than Labour.
A vote for the SNP is what it is. And my vote put my MP into Parliament to fight for me.
TBH it certainly looks more and more that this Union of nations is broken beyond repair and a parting of the ways will not be long in coming.

 

So you'll vote nationalist - and then complain that the English voted in a Tory government?

That's having your cake and eating it Ian.

I'm not blaming Scotland. The 'middle' and working classes in England who think they're richer than they are, who are too thick not to believe the papers and the BBCs propaganda and so vote Tory, akin to turkeys voting for Christmas, are just as much to blame. Perhaps more so. It doesn't excuse the idiocy of the Scottish casting aside labour though.

You are not going to ever be fully independent. Even if you are it isn't going to be in the next five years.

So by voting snp- as everyone is pointing out - you are hugely increasing the likelihood of the whole of the uk being governed by the flaming tories.

I don't see how you don't get that.

Vote snp for the holyrood parliament yes, if you actually believe in them, but for the uk government it's just a bonus for May and her cronies.


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Nobody is ignoring it we are saying those who would vote Tory would not likely vote labour but those that vote snp would and so those are voters that are helping tories far more

 

Realistically, to keep the Tories out will need a "Left" alliance. Probably Labour and SNP as the majority, with Plaid, the Greens and an Irish party to make up the numbers (maybe even the Libdems too). Would anyone from the left side have a problem with a couple of SNP MPs in the cabinet (Minister for Scotland and a couple of lesser jobs?) or with a Plaid MP as minister for Wales?

 

It would've been stupid for Corbyn to appear without May.

His aim is to take seats off the Tories & he'd do that by showing her up live on tele but if he does well in a leaders debate without May he's not likely to take any Tory seats as he's not arguing against her.

If he did badly then he's just risking losing seats to the smaller parties

 

You should vote for who you believe best represents you. Good on yer.

It's just a bonus that it seems there are so many Scots who think like you - England thus avoids a Corbyn Government and we might even get rid of The Krankie too off our screens in time. Why the Scots themselves put up with the SNP whingeing on for the benefit only of less than 50% of their own population is beyond me.

Anyway - keep it up.

 

The leaders debates are a very new thing in this country but the way people go on about those who decline the invitation you'd think it had been a political institution for years, the few we have had have been very sterile, often with a disproportionately Liberal audience where all we get are meaningless sound bites of each leader trying to take the moral high ground on every issue.

Total waste of time.

 

In fairness, he's not the one ranting and stamping his feet because he's not voting how you want him to.

You are accusing him of wasting his vote, which you have no right to do.


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Whilst there is quite a few valid points made on this thread, my overall opinion is this:

Whilst we have a FPTP system in the country, and in its defence I can only say that it is a poor reflection on society. The system promtes and maintains a horrid status quo whereby minority views are ignored.This system brings large majorities with minority share of the popular vote! There has never been a better time to implement PR - that and introduce compulsory lessons in politics/economics for the 11+ years age group at school (personally I'd do away with RE for a start) Not only is it fair, and anyone that can't say that it isn't must be ordered to go back to school and do an essay marked by me - and to pass they have to get over 100% - obviously Ms Abbott is excused on grounds of number blindness)

 

Hi Dan, I'm not doing either of those things, I'm just stating the facts that it will either be a Tory or Labour PM when all's said and done. You'll notice I didn't try and convince Ian to vote Labour, infact I said a few times to read up on Corbyn and May and decides who he likes best of them. I do appreciate his point of wanting a SNP MP in his local area which is fair enough. It does make a Tory govenment more likely though, that is an undeniable fact, which, if he doesn't like May's policies is worth bearing in mind. The one issue I do have is how very pro-Scotland, anti-England Ian is and how he seems to be under the impression that the opposite is the same for people who live in England. I can't speak for everyone but I've never thought of us as separate countries, we are all UK, we all have the same PM and same Queen and I don't understand the 'us' and 'them' mentality.

 

Ah well this has been a good wee debate on the BBS. I fair enjoyed it. Listening to opinions of polar opposite to my own. No one right and no one wrong. But what is absolutely evident is that the UK is finished. Scotland / England with Wales and NI all drifting in different directions.
If in any doubt that TV debate showed it up. NHS, Education, Housing all different and finance ie the Barnett formula which the English would like to get rid of.
The Union of nations IMO is just not working and we should all seriously think about separation.

Just my opinion guys.

 

Jam Drop. I'd like to pick you up on one very important point here. I am not and never have been anti English in the manner you seem to suggest. But if being very pro Scottish with a desire to live in an Independent Scotland makes me anti English in your eyes then so be it.
Really awkward situation.
We all have opinions and those are driven by how we view the world in which we live in. Scotland and England are neighbours but as nations we are miles apart. Totally different cultures.

 

Yeah whateva.

 

What's different? Really? Apart from buck fast and Irn Bru?

 

But not in the same glass. Surely.

 

Ian, you do come across as anti-English, not just pro Scottish (not today as such but thinking back across your posts over the last few years). You may not actually feel that way but that is certainly how it comes across in your posts and may be giving out the wrong impression. Genuine question, how are we miles apart as nations? I really don't see that to be the case. Sure, we all have our own quirks, we get that across counties nevermind countries - but miles apart?

 

Different NHS. We get free prescriptions and you don't. Why?
Different Education systems. We have no Grammar Schools. I believe you are a teacher, as is my daughter in Shetland so you will know of other differences.
We unfortunately along with Wales have to depend on that Barnett formula in order to function. Something which irks plenty English. Now I don't like living on a hand out from England but why should this happen if we all supposed to be one country.
And I'm very sorry that I give you the wrong impression of how I really am. TBH pal I'm struggling to think of where I have been disrespectful in my comments. Suppose its difficult not to come across as anti English when voicing support to the nation of my birth.