Disgusted in Jeremy Corbyn

The chap I'm conversing with suggested yesterday that Afghanistan was freed by our forces bombing and invading it. That we freed their people. I disagree.

The actions today highlight that.

Do you believe the terrorism around the world has been helped by the coalition invading these sort of nations? I don't. And the attacks on these shores by such terrorists weren't happening prior to our 'intervention'.

 

Bomb other countries who are weaker than you. There will be consequences. It's not the whole reason for terrorism but you do have to be fairly blind not to see the link.

 

Firstly, these places are more tribal than nationalistic. Everything is so complicated.

Secondly, we haven't invaded for the sake of it. Anywhere.

We've been part of an intervention in different areas of the globe, from time to time. Some interventions have been better than others. We did a lot of good in the Balkans for example.

Our worst intervention seems to have been Iraq. Labour ballsup that one, so there's no political point to be made about all of this.

We have a UN which ought to be capable of keeping everyone in check. Sadly, it often does not seem fit for purpose.

With regard to your question about whether there would be no terror attacks here, if we'd stayed at home.............well.......we are up against a set of tossers who want to establish a worldwide caliphate..... they aren't wanting to stay there in the middle east shooting gays and keeping the females
in the house, unable to jig to their Take That cds.

So we'd get attacked sooner or later, by virtue of their aims. So I'm for intervention against this lot.

Better than letting them take over the middle east. Innit?

 

Especially when you add in the fact that a lot of people in your own country have a lot of connections with the people whose lives you are destroying and frankly who you are murdering.

Add in the fact that the media and then a large amount of the public paint YOU as a monster simply for being the same religion and/or same ethnicity as ISIS and demonise you for it and you have to be thick to not realise that those actions inevitably do cause some young disconnected muslims to side with Isis and see us as the bad guys.

I understand why people say you cannot reason with Isis and you cannot sit down and talk to them and they are most likely right. But that doesn't mean that we cannot reason with the other 99.999999% of Muslims and make them feel welcome here. Continue to turn them against us and we have to accept that we are contributing towards creating terrorists.

 

Ok then here's a question. What makes a young lad from Manchester suddenly decide that the UK is so horrible and that Isis are the people he wants to side with? My guess is its that he sees distant relations and people he has a connection with Beng blown up by us.

 

Mmmmm...........well first he does not seem to have suddenly decided - he's been cooking in this direction for a while.

Secondly, who was being "blown up"? The goodies or the baddies?

Thirdly, why is there a logic towards supporting a group who are - let's face it - murderers who seem to me to favour a male-can-do-what -he-likes while females are subjugated to practically nothing?

One would imagine that your average chap over here with Germanic origins 1939-45 would thus have licence to bomb with impunity wherever he liked, and we'd have happily understood this.

Finally, if he doesn't like it he can carry on a non-violent campaign over here. Or he can go to where his affinities better lie.

 

Stop putting words in people's mouths. Nobody said that murderers should be supported.

 

Nor did I.

 

Why is there a logic towards supporting a group who are - let's face it - murderers

 

I am saying why - from the point of view of the murderer - why is there such a logic?

 

Because they also see us as murderers because we bomb and kill innocent people

 

Those in Dresden no doubt thought the same.

 

What are you talking about now?

 

I know it's complicated, massively so and as I've said already, I have no idea what the answer is. However, I don't believe, nor did I at the time, that invading the likes of Iraq and bombing such countries, killing innocent people is any kind of answer. I was against it at the outset, as was Corbyn. Which is the only political point I've made. The OP called it disgusting of Corbyn to speak up at this time. I disagreed. If ever there was a time to discuss foreign policy and defence, surely it's now?


But regards the near past, I cannot accept that our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan was necessary. At all. It was sold to the public through lies and fear. Meanwhile, Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan. That great nuclear nation. We didn't invade them did we? Our attempts to help peace in the Middle East look decidedly dodgy with my eyes.

I question the real motives for those 'interventions'.

Good debate though. And I do see this stuff from a few angles. But I suppose the way you are as a person will have you arriving at one of a few conclusions. Whether either is right or wrong, time will tell.

 

Lying about someone is not cool mate. Discuss ideas. Criticise policies. Don't regurgitate lies it's disgusting. Have a word with yourself.

 

Motivation for those interventions. Oil.

 

And gold.

Afghan was the home of heroin too...

 

We always get back to minerals and poppies don't we?

It is the refuge of the simpleton.

But it satisfies.

 

Insulting someone in a discussion however, that's the sign of a genius.

I won't be conversing with you again in future.

 

The point is that without nation states being weakened and de-stabilised they would struggle to get any foothold.