But will you press the red button

All seem valid points to me. I think we live in politically illiterate times, by and large, and it's hard to take a position of nuance. I think Corbyn has explained his position clearly in that sometimes you have to engage with people you don't agree with to achieve something. That you have to break down barriers between people before dialogue can start.

I like Corbyn believe(d) in a united Ireland. That doesn't mean I supported the methods of the IRA (I feel the the same about the ANC and the PLO).

I have families members who served there and would not insult them by doing so.

If you were to ask me to condemn specifically the IRA I would put it in the context of condemning all acts of violence to achieve political ends. If pressed however I would specifically condemn the IRA but balance this with reiterating my equal condemnation of all acts of terrorism.

I also believe that that the best way to solve and political problem is engagement. This can take many forms. Clandestine meetings, public meetings whatever. The best way forward ( as all sides eventually showed in Ireland) is to stop fighting and start talking.

What I think is more important for our times. An equally valid but less asked question Is regarding the links both under this government and under the previous Labour one between the arms industry and government and terrorism.

Selling weapons to countries like Saudi that support radical Islam and that can and do end up in the arms of terrorists. Why are we doing this? Is money more important than the lives of our citizens? Why is our government complicit in this?

For all his nuances Corbyn was clearly never complicit in arming the IRA. Our current Government ( and Blair/Brown) have indirectly put weapons in the arms of our enemies for greed. This needs to stop. We need to stop. These are the important question of our times. We need to ask politicians on all sides about this rather than an issue that has been resolved one that presents clear and present danger.

Radical Islam is the most dangerous force on the planet. The most pressing issue of our times. When will we wake up to the fact that selling weapons to countries that support is massively dangerous. If we are to ask one question regarding terrorism this should be it.


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I think the concern is that he DOES agree with some of them...


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Never, never, never has the Establishment been so afraid of one man !

 

Well given he seems the only politician not given to lying to achieve political office it seems unlikely.

I believe that the ANC was correct to oppose Apartheid in South Africa. Does that mean I support Winnie Mandela and her mates. Putting tyres round someone's neck?


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Funny nobody brings up the fact that he campaigned for the release of Nelson Mandela, somebody Thatcher labeled a terrorist.
Who is labeled a terrorist & who is a freedom fighter historically is usually decided by the winners of any situation.
As other posters have said, without dialogue, then violence is the usual outcome. Orgreave is another one that has been neatly brushed under the carpet too.

 

Tories not so keen to discuss things like this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...r-granted-secret-pardon-to-IRA-terrorist.html

 

It is the most stupid question you could possibly ask somebody and absolutely impossible to answer because nobody in the world has ever been in the position before

 

Exactly, especially in a q&a of things that really matter in the here and now (health, education, economy). Pretty **** from Dimbleby to let it go on for so long.


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Slightly off-topic. But was anybody shouting at their TV screens when that nurse was asking Theresa May about NHS wages being frozen at 1%? She replied with something about a magic money tree.... I was thinking that we always seem to find the money to fire missiles at a £1 million a pop overseas, yet we cant at least pay our nurses in line with inflation?? That for me is the biggest issue to come out of the debate, real, honest hard-working people. Not Nuclear bombs that we will never use.

 

When do terrorists become freedom fighters is a very interesting question. I don't want to hijack this thread with a topic that deserves it's own thread but in summary I will say that Mandela and the ANC turned to terrorism in the early 60's (not on the scale of the IRA) but history will quite rightly, in my opinion, remember him as a freedom fighter and revolutionary who fought inequality and stood up for black rights and won. I don't think, at the time, Thatcher was on her own in her opinion of Mandela but opinion changed. We negotiated a peace deal with the IRA but the opinion of them, outside of parts of the Republican community, never changed.

The IRA will always be remembered for exactly what they were / are - cowardly murdering terrorists.

This is why the questions keep being asked.

 

I could have twatted her to be honest. Barefaced lies and a complete disregard for someone who does one of the most important jobs in society. Pretty much like employing a health secretary who wants to sell the service off. Disgraceful.

I know where the magic money tree is it's in the Cayman Islands where May's husband keeps his money or the Bahamas where Rudd keeps hers.


https://twitter.com/jamesmelville/status/870770894146285568

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Spot on. On only two occasions have nuclear weapons been used. Most would accept that the consequences were dreadful (in the most serious sense of that word) and disproportionate, resulting in the loss of 200,000 lives. It would be more worrying to me if someone who has never held ministerial office were to indicate that he wouldn't hesitate to use them. It's a complete red herring, and nothing to do with the problems our country is facing.

 

To be honest, I think they have been knowingly underfunding the NHS since the 80's. Constantly trying to bring in privatisation without it seeming like they are. The big businesses in healthcare have been lobbying and funding all sides of the house for decades to get their hands on our NHS. On a broader note, until we do away with private donations to political parties then we will always have a biased and skewed system that favours big business. All the parties to one extent or another are bought and paid for. We get the pantomime on our TV's when they appear to oppose eachother on policy, but in my opinion, they've all got their snouts in the same trough.

 

I think that's been true for years the snouts in trough comment. I think Corbyn has changed that he has brought political choice and difference back (whatever you think of him or his policies) and his refusal to slag the opposition off. It's made me care again.


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I do not intend to vote in the general election, but I decided to watch Question Time as a way of reinforcing my view that my vote would be wasted. I thought that I would contribute my impressions on the two politicians as a neutral.

First of all, I thought Mrs May did really well, much better than I anticipated. I was impressed that not once did she knock her opponent or the policies in his manifesto. Throughout, she concentrated on explaining her own position, the reasons that her party took the view it took and what it would mean in practice for the country. I voted to remain in the EU, but her explanation of her negotiating position was one I could relate to and I understood why she was not willing to reveal anything in advance of the talks. As someone who posts on here about the need for logic in connection with BFC, I am someone who looks for logic in life, and I found it in much of what Mrs May said, even if I do not agree with her politics. She faced some tough questions, particularly from the two individuals with mental heath issues who had been required to prove inability to work before they could keep receiving benefits. She did not try to duck the questions, or simply placate the individuals. She had sympathy and I had the feeling that she was thinking how the system could be changed in order to help those in genuine need. She came over much better than I expected, and much against my expectations, I was impressed.

I did not expect to be impressed by Mr Corbyn either. Unfortunately, his performance did nothing to reassure me. Since the invention of nuclear weapons, I believe that 'mutually assured destruction' is the one thing that has kept us safe. Any head of government must believe that if he uses a nuclear weapon, both he and his country will be annihilated. Whether they will be is not the point. The point is that every leader believes that to be the case. Any leader who takes the position that he has no intention of using such a weapon automatically opens the door on first use by someone who is willing to do so. The fact that we will have bought and paid for a nuclear arsenal that is redundant in his hands is another piece of logic that I have doubts about. But the thing that worried be most about this section of the debate was that Mr Corbyn sought to avoid giving a direct answer to the question. He tried to avoid the issue by not answering the question, and because he did that, he looked less than Prime Minister material as compared to the way Mrs May preformed. This sort of thing is a beauty parade, an immediate comparison between the two people who are asking us to elect them in the top job. I do not think either candidate is worth my vote, and that is why I will not be voting, but last night, Mrs May looked a better candidate.

Then there was the contrasting ways that they addressed the inevitable Brexit negotiation question. The answer that Mrs May gave suggested that she expected to be doing the job. The answer that Mr Corbyn gave suggested that he was desperate to convince us that he understood how important a trade deal with Europe was, but at the same time, his answer gave the impression to the team at the other side of the table that he would sacrifice anything or pay anything in order to get that deal. Now I am of the view that the people should have a second vote once the exact consequences of our original decision are known, and in that respect, I support neither view of the impending negotiations. I just think that Mrs May's position is the one most likely to succeed.

Finally, Mr Corbyn revealed that his government would be going into the banking business, on top of all the other businesses the Labour government would be running, and the costs of setting up all those new businesses, he now intends to run a bank. Sorry, but the implications of that just left me slowly shaking my head from side to side. Mr Corbyn has done nothing to suggest that he and his policies should get anywhere near government. I still have no intention of exercising my vote, and even my wife thinks that is nonsense, but I hope that Mr Corbyn is nowhere near government at the end of voting day.

 

I didn't hear Theresa May answer a single question.

Mouthed stuff about magic money tree to someone who has had a real time decrease in pay of 14 percent.

Showed a complete disregard for the position of the person impacted by the PIP assessment.

Europe who would best head the discussions Keir Starmer or Boris Johnson...

May struggled on the NHS and social care both important current issues. Corbyn struggled on hypothetical questions about Trident that is completely irrelevant.

It's a choice between someone who wants to steal food from the mouths of children, rob the dead and rip foxes apart or someone trying to build a future. The baby boomers are priceless. We had all the free education all the pensions we retired early. We don't want you having any of that.


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"Even my wife"? Come, come Mr Rain. We can do better than that!

 

https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/870923686936797184

Looks like the magic money tree only has branches for the rich.


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I bet she doesn't rob Mr Rain's pie though.


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Theresa May filibustered aimlessly on Brexit, saying nothing of consequence but aiming to keep the debate and eat up time on the issue polling tells her she scores best.

Interestingly I read a piece by a former senior diplomat who explained why she is the worst kind of negotiator for international diplomacy. She surrounds herself with a small number of people and views, is incapable of thinking on her feet and is inflexible, closes down and reverts to type when challenged, and can not form empathetic relationships.

The Tory manifesto offers no positive vision for this country. Theresa May last night repeated two things, there is no magic money tree and we are facing a difficult world. The first of these is repeated at a time when higher earner income tax is lower than it has been in most of modern history and corporation tax is lower than most of the developed world. The second point is not a manifesto. A manifesto should set out in a costed way how you deal with challenges.

Only one person offered passion, hope and a costed vision for a positive future for our country last night. I am more enthused by politics than i have been in my adult life, and as someone who didn't vote Labour at the last election I will be doing so next Thursday.