All these remoaners

Good question, but don't expect an answer any time soon. Fox, Boris et al are doing what Trump does which is to paint an image (totally devoid of any detail) and just keep banging on about it.
The number of times I've heard them say we will be able to go out into the world and make new trade deals. Yet to hear them say how these deals will be better than the ones we have already.

1. As far as I am aware the EU has not declined to have trade deals with anyone (maybe North Korea).
2. Logic would dictate that a block of nations with 600M consumer will have far more bargaining power that one with 70M consumers.
3. Trade deals generally take around 3-5 years to put in place.
4. We won't be first in anyone's list of deals to get done. They will all be far more concerned with USA, EU, BRIC
5. EU accounts for somewhere near 45% of our current trade. To make Brexit worthwhile new trade deals will have to more than compensate for the loss of some of that trade

I suspect that when Fox & Co. talk about better trade deals they mean that we will have such a low wage economy & be so desperate for deals that we will sign up to anything.
The next step on their agenda will be to tell the working class that we will have to cut back on holidays & maternity leave, worker's rights if we want to be competitive in the world.
I have no doubt that their friends companies may well benefit from that kind of trade, doubt the working class will see any of it.

 

I think you are right I'm afraid. Parallels with the 1930's are everywhere. We have a phoney war in Syria between Russia & Iran on one side and the USA & Saudi on the other. The fall out from that is feeding the refugee crisis in Europe. Hard to see Trump or Putin backing down.
Add in a trade war between the USA & Europe that could result in mass unemployment & inflation & it all looks rife for a further growth in fascism is possible in Europe. That could well put paid to the EU & war could well follow.

I'm off to build a nuclear fallout shelter...

 

Currently no the Eu doesnt have the authoirty to declare war but given their ultimate end game is a sole EU army under their control.

Youve currently got Pesco. Leaders of various states wanting closer ties on defence, closer intergration.

Junker his self has already suggested a sole Eu army on more than one occassion.

Given the fondess of the Eu's back door policy making it wouldnt suprise me if it was well on the way to being snuck in under the radar.

I know exactly why i voted the way i did and nothing has changed but please feel free to be more condescending in your reply.

 

The only possible trade deals that could bridge the gap with what we will lose to the EU are with the USA, China & India, all of which we are on WTO terms with at the moment. The likelihood of us getting a good deal with Trump is non existent. We'll get some nice chlorinated chicken & most of our farmers will be fecked. China has a dodgy HR record & subsidises everything under the sun, so that one won't be a bed of roses. India's standard of living is so far behind ours GDP wise, it would still only be a drop in the ocean, compared to Germany, France, etc.

 

India have already intimated that their starting position to engage in a trade deal is freedom of movement and greater bias allocating University places to indian migrants. The irony!

 

Yes, inevitable that. You couldn't make the ridiculous state of affairs we are in.
We would get a massive influx of medical and IT workers for a start. A few more balti houses wouldn't go amiss though, if that was the phaal out.

 

So your vote was based on fear and supposition rather than actual facts.

 

Which was what?

 

If any of that is 'fact' please can you supply sources for the facts.

 

German crime is at the lowest it has been for decades.
https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/pressemitteilungen/DE/2018/05/pks-und-pmk-2017.html

Merkel's approval rating is at 57%, 23% below the highest point it has been at - yet still massively higher than Trump's or May's.

The courts stop the deportation because the Government keep doing it wrong. In this country we govern by the rule of law, it's as British as you can get, so everyone has to abide by those law's even the Government, yet they keep trying to slip slide by them whining all the time.

It's called freedom of movement, you're allowed to do the same. It's a wonderful principle, but somehow you've allowed the gutter press to tell you that we're being overrun by parasites. It's just what the Daily Mail was saying about the Jews in 1938.

 

Actually the UK will probably find it easier to negotiate free trade deals than the EU block. For a few reasons, firstly every deal currently has to be signed off by all member states so things take an eternity. Once we have left, we will not have that stalling or adding to the negotiations. The US have imposed the tariffs on the EU block, Canada. etc.. The UK as a smaller entity poses far less threat in Trumps eyes when it comes to trade, I expect that we will end up with a far better deal than the EU are getting. He sees the EU as a protectionist racket, I get where he is coming from in that sense.

Other people have mentioned that Barnsley has been in receipt of EU cash so being in the EU is a good thing. Well we have to remember where that cash originates from. We send the billions across to them each year, and then they topslice the funds and pretend the money we get back for infrastructure projects is from the EU. It's common knowledge that we pay far more than we get back from the EU so I'm afraid the argument about the EU being good for Barnsley falls flat on it's face.

What we do need to ensure is that once free of the EU funding, we hold our own government to account to ensure that money is allocated fairly and not just in the south, especially London. Conservatives and Labour governments alike have all failed to maintain a fair balance, it is up to the electorate to ensure that happens. If governments don't deliver, there needs to be a credible and valid alternative threat in opposition, something we don't have with the labour party at the moment.

 

Good luck with that project.

 

No No NOOOO

The will of the people.

Democracy

Etc etc

If you ask for another referendum or meaningful vote in Parliament then that is undemocratic.

Having more democracy is undemocratic.

We've had a vote and that is now set in stone. We never change our minds. We voted for our MP's and they have to stay in Parliament for ever, we don't have another vote every few years, oh no.

 

Democracy is not frozen in time.

 

We might find it easier to sign a trade deal, if we had enough trade negotiators to work on more than one at a time - and they are all tied up with the EU at the moment. However, with a no-deal exit - with no trade deals (less than any other country in the world) - everybody knows we are desperate. Negotiating from that position is never a good idea.

Funny how Trump sees the EU as a protectionist racket when he is being protectionist himself His trade policies will drive American firms out of business and cost jobs.

Again, you are suddenly hoping that out of somewhere the country gets a competent government *and* opposition party who acts in the countries rather than their own interest. Hundreds of years history suggests that is somewhere between being hit by lightning and an asteroid in the terms of likely life events.

 

The UK being such a small entity will most likely get loved by any Trump administration.

They want our healthcare. - They want to **** over our NHS.

They want to flood our market with their agriculture products. This will ruin our farmers and the countryside.

They want lower food standards. They have chlorinated chicken because the standards on their farms are so poor, they have to wash their meat in chlorine to get rid of bugs. We have high standard farms where the meat does not need treatment.

Their meat is cheap, one of the reasons for this is because they allow growth hormones and antibiotics to be used freely. That also means those growth hormones and antibiotics get int the water system and into our bodies. Good luck with that.

Trump is more likely to go into a trade war than allow 'free trade' as has been seen recently

 

"If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy."
- David Davis MP 19/11/2012.

 

The alliance with the US has always been one way and I can only see that getting worse with the current presidential incumbent. I'm gravely worried that so many standards will slip and we'll take on board much of Americas nasty crap and because we're desperate, we'll take the deal as we've nothing better, yet when push comes to shove we'll see little sold to US, but much being sold to us.

South Yorkshire did get significant monies from the EU, and yes, we are a net contributor to it. But is that a bad thing? I strongly believe much of the issue for large numbers (and that's been demonstrated in numerous threads), is that its the cause of the UK's problems away from the South. The EU also provide uses of courts, regulatory bodies and agencies, replacing ones we used to have. You can judge that as paid services in some ways, though you could argue it may deprive jobs (we did have a bonfire of the quango's some time ago though which was praised by much of the country)

The EU isn't at fault for cutting back infrastructure projects, halving council funding and culling industry. Nor is at fault for govt stance on the NHS and austerity, to transfer government "debt" to personal debt. They are either more local factors due to governmental decisions or global factors and our need for cheap imports rather than quality that lasts.

The EU isn't perfect, but I trust it as a block more than the governments we've had for the last near decade, and it does have transparency, if you can be bothered reading its minutes.

I also wonder how many towns in the North and other down at heel towns and cities re-energise themselves. You can give them money, but what do they do with it? Textile, coal and steel industries are long gone. Sheffield has been trying for years to have a creative hub near the station and off the parkway, has failed time and again to have a meaningful advanced manufacturing park. Digital and creative can be done anywhere, and many European countries are advancing at speed. So what can the North provide that others can't?

if the North is going to prosper, it needs to have the drive and determination to get there too. That's the stark difference I've found in London, business is easier. I spent years in South Yorkshire banging my head against a brick wall. In the south east, companies and individuals see solutions and more readily invest (if funds are there) and do so swiftly.

There are plenty of problems that will be faced, and i feel that they will only be exacerbated upon exit from our main trading partner.

 

Barnsley survived only as a consequence of EU intervention. The small % of our national budget that goes (and has gone) to the EU has been fundamental to my town and others here in the north. Nobody from barnsley could surely argue that 'that argument falls flat on it's face". Someone from leafy Surrey however may have an argument, but i'm sure they are more than content living in one of the most affluent areas of the country.

 

Ah, so you voted on something that you think might happen and in doing so removed our ability to prevent happening the very thing you don't think should happen