Second referendum

I read a Reuters report a couple of weeks ago that if we remain then we have to pay the EUs legal fees .
Fake news ?
I dunno .

 

Good point!

 

Could be part of a deal I guess.

Anyway - we are either leaving with no deal or there will be a second referendum I think.

Really can’t see a deal being possible. I don’t think the EU have the ability to be flexible, even if they had the will. They don’t have that mandate.

And the current deal will not get through parliament.

 

OK so now you are quoting a legitimate source. The original post didn't therefore it was a rumour. It still has to be voted in so it's not a fact at this time.

One of the arguments for Brexit I have had most difficulty refuting is the one that says it is not democratic enough. Do you want it to be democratic, or nationalistic? Or like other brexiteers do you want it both ways? Not being a member, but having the benefits of membership.

I'm not saying that everyone voting for Brexit did it for reasons of bigotry, but I believe that many did. If you take those people out of the vote then there would be no majority.

We are now faced with paying for and abiding by the rules of the EU without a say in how they spend it. The alternative is to see 40% + of trade go up in smoke with its impact on jobs and incomes. Cheaper labour, more zero hours contracts, food banks and austerity, this time for nationalistic reasons. Bring back the ration cards.

This is being led by people immured from its effect. Reese-Mogg, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and the 50s throwback Farage. The turkeys continue with their determination to vote for Christmas and we persevere with the biggest self damaging course of action in history.

 

We are all willing to debate without resorting to being called “cretins”

If you think it’s lilliput and Roses and the far right racists and bigots aren’t supporting the same side as you then there’s no point talking to you either.

 

Yes that’s true it was on one of the politics programmes in an interview with Barnier.
If we pay for all the negotiations and Eu costs which would be a small amount relatively speaking we would be allowed to stay in EU with all our current vetos and benefits etc .

 

?? Where has anyone mentioned cretins in this thread? MY post was about being accused of posting Brexiteer rumours when it was factual.

 

That was half of it. You myst have just accidentally forgot the part of your post where you said it was pointless trying to debate because people throw the bigot card in. Which they sometimes do because it’s true.

 

https://euobserver.com/institutional/139630

have a look on this link to see what they are planning

 

As we've discussed ad infinitum, the 1975 referendum was for remaining a member of the European Economic Community (EC) not the European Union that we have today.
I did in fact vote to remain in 1975, the first signs for me that it wasn't what I had voted for were in the late 1980's when it suddenly transformed into a European Union, something I hadn't voted for and would not have endorsed. Heath's Cabinet (1972/3 ) papers released under the 30yr rule are quite illuminating, they discuss how to dress up lost sovereignty as 'shared' sovereignty and suggest that in fifteen years, even if people have recognised the deception ( my word) it will be too late to pull out. We were never told that the goal was a Europe with one currency, although decimalisation in 1971 should have, with hindsight, given us a clue.
Since then Major and Blair signed us up for several important material changes, Maastricht and The EU Constitution/Lisbon Treaty being the most high profile, and we were denied a referendum on it despite it being promised.
So in short we have stood by the original for 43 years despite the fact that it is not what we signed up to.

 

You can't see the logic in changing your position when faced with further evidence? No wonder you are entrenched in your view. No wonder brexiteers are entrenched in their view.

 

It's also in my view massively overstated, look how few turned out for Tommy Robinson's march last week, there were more journalists than Tommy and his pals....no support from the great British public at all.

 

No not at all you have voted in general elections in which parties have laid bare their policies on Europe and got to power on those policies so democratic all the way.

 

B******s, trying to get multi-nationals to pay their taxes!

I really do respect your opinion. You have well considered reasons and you make them well. But this is a prime example of why I take a different view. We live in such an integrated world and the only way to deal with those challenges is to work collaboratively.

I appreciate your point about 1975, but the world has changed and is going to change almost inconceivable over the next decade with the rise of automation and the fourth industrial revolution.

 

So....getting corporate giants to pay fairer taxes
democratic accountability
better re use and recycling of plastics
new trade agreements with those outside the EU

Sounds absolutely terrible.

 

Pleased that you've accepted the democracy angle, as to the point about referenda Marlon, you said we hadn't honoured the first one, which we clearly have for 40 odd years....the fact is that material changes have been pushed through in Parliament in the meantime without referenda, when all parties are of the same mind it effectively disenfranchises voters who disagree, that is why UKIP rose from nothing to threaten the status quo to a degree that forced 84% of MP's to vote to put the issue to the people.
So as you observed, democratic all the way.

 

Can’t recall UKIP being of the same mind and never had anyone elected to reject EU.
We have not honoured the original referendum as it never stated their would be another Infact I recall being told it was a one off ,
If the original can be overturned or re voted then imo so can this one as it makes a mockery of our first vote imo

 

Im sorry I don’t agree, to deny it exists is hiding from a very big problem in my eyes. We’ve all heard “send them back” in the pubs, on Facebook etc whoever “them” are. I could link to the channel 4 piece, his views were not of one man.

I do agree that it wasn’t the only issue for many, but to argue it wasn’t an issue that was a big Influence for many is plain daft.

 

Tbf I did say overstated.