Second referendum

Groundhog day then Marlon....As Remainers took great delight in pointing out after they had lost in 2016, referendums in the UK are only advisory.

 

There seems to be a lingering misconception in the UK that we're still a major world power. A harking back to the first half of the last century when we could lay the law down around the world. I'm very patriotic and, given the current state of a lot of the world, I sort of wish we could. The fact is time has moved on and we can't.
The idea that we can go it alone and still be a major player is poppycock but it's what a huge number of people yearn for.
The reality is a lot more stark. Russia waltzes into our country and murders people with impunity and what have we been able to do about it? Sanctions from America or the EU may hurt them but from the UK alone. They couldn't care less.
I've watched an awful lot of political news from America the last two years. When they talk about major players on the world stage we don't get mentioned. It's China, Russia, the EU. When they talk about the major European powers they talk about France and Germany. We've abdicated our place alongside them because we no longer have much influence inside the EU.
You can bairn and scream all you like about sovereignty and making our own decisions but if you'd better come to terms with us being progressively more and more marginalised. Yes, we're still a fairly strong global economy but we are now dwarfed by China and the US and will be in the future by the EU.
We can come out of the EU and all stand around waving our Union Jacks, or more likely Crosses of St George but I'm afraid the rest of the world will be less and less interested.

 

Exactly that and if ever UKIP or like minded parties get a majority then I will accept the inevitable .

 

i'll tell you why Marlon,because the 1975 referendum was for a trading bloc,not a political union,an ever more integrated one at that..Accusations in 1975 of a future political superstate or union and a common currency were ridiculed and the accusers were called liars or scaremongers..the referendum was for a trading bloc and that is it.

the formation of the european union through the various treaties has been done so without the ratification of the general public and in a democracy this is wrong and i still struggle to understand how labour voters,particularly active socialists are ok with something(maastricht) agreed by a tory prime minister,it really is beyond me.

When the various treaties were signed particularly Maastricht there was a lot of people against it,particularly in the commons,and there were calls for referendum as this agreement was going against our constitution in that although there was no legal need for mp's to order a referendum there was a strong case that Mp.s did not have the authority to ok the transfer of some of our domestic powers and laws to europe and the process should have been ratified by the people in a referendum.

france and a couple of others did indeed have it written into their constitution that the people should have a say and in a national referendum the people accepted it with a majority of less than one per cent,**** knows what the remain side here would be like had our referendum only had 0.8% majority lol

john major promised a referendum in the following election campaign as he knew there were millions against the treaty , then in 1997 tony blair used the same tactic,both then stuck two fingers up to the electorate.

mp's are entrusted with making decisions on domestic legislation,there is however nothing in our constitution that allows them to transfer powers to another organisation like the eu, many will argue theres nowt in the constitution to stop them doing so either,but when our constitution was written there were no plans to join something like the eu

a vote by the people should have been done when masstricht was signed,but true to form it took 25 years to get one and many fail to understand why people like me trust no lovely person in the commons when it comes to the eu,having said that i do make exceptions for mp's that have stuck to their guns and been against the eu from day one,corbyn would have got my respect had he not whimped out as soon as he was elected leader,the spineless **** has always been against the eu and its ultimate aims.

 

Sovereignty? For the greater part of my life that has meant power being exercised by Conservative governments who have, so far as I can see, done little to benefit anyone as much as those who already enjoy considerable wealth and privilege. If you want just one example, look at last year's budget and compare the respective uplifts to the basic and higher rate tax thresholds. EU legislation, as has already been stated has included important protections in regard to employment, environmental issues, safety standards, and the best guarantee of human rights yet seen. EU authority is not "sovereignty" in any event, because it is the willing pooling of legislative power by the 28 member states. I'd sooner have sovereignty exercised by a measured, collaborative set of heads which upholds common standards than a ruling elite which is largely impervious to the interests of the larger part of the UK population. No wonder Tories dislike the EU!

As for democracy, the EU institutions are either elected (European Parliament) or are comprised of those elected in their own countries or members selected by those who have been elected. Is there any democratic legitimacy in our monarchy or upper chamber? To hold elections for every single post in the various EU bodies among all 28 member states would be chaotic and time-consuming. As for bureaucracy, the EU 'civil service' is no larger than the UK equivalent, despite serving the interests of 500M+ citizens with a combined GDP of c.$17 Trillion. Do I want to sacrifice the benefits of all this so that I can wave a flag and say "we are sovereign!" ? Err, no thanks.

 

I don't know anyone who wants to Leave who holds the view that we can hark back to the days of empire, nor would want to, but the world still has plenty of countries that feel confident enough to go it alone in a spirit of cooperation and friendship without being tied politically to anyone else. Plenty of third countries work together with the EU for the common good as a free choice on the side of both parties...long may that continue.

 

It was a referendum of going into Europe and that’s it .
We can’t have a referendum every time new legislation is passed in EU
It’s what happens and we vote political parties and MEPs to interpret and vote which way we go as in democracy .
If the 1975 is deemed not binary there is legitimate calls that future ones aren’t as well .
We had a political party that were EU sceptic and couldn’t even get one MP .
The 1975 referendum should be binary and we should vote political parties to act for us .
We voted In,not have a referendum in 40 years time . Moods change by the people it could even be that if we had another referendum we would vote to stay but we vote MPs to make decisions and we never voted even one UKIP MP

 

Yet you're not accepting the fact that this referendum result should stand, despite the fact that 84% of MP's voted for it.

 

A referendums a referendum we voted to go into Europe with MEPs and Our parliament ratifying or not ratifying motions and proposalswe were told it was a one off .
If the 1975 referendum is bypassed then so can this one .
You can use whatever argument you want about the 1975 one not being this or not being that but if it can be revoked so can this one .

 

Again Marlon sorry but you are mistaken, we did not vote to go into Europe.

 

It was endorsed by the people so officially and morally our pass into EU and not just a whim on a political party so therefore imo our ratification .

 

Given what masstricht lisbon etc contains and how it can and has affected the UKs consitution there should have been referendums on both.

 

Obviously UKIP would have covered these and objected in its manifesto Which considering no UKIP MP was elected wasn’t a concern by the British people

 

Your range of contacts who voted leave must be somewhat limited then.

 

If we ultimately ended up remaining in the eu, would we then have to sign up to be handcuffed to it so that we didn’t go through this empty debacle again?
I’m thinking along the lines of what our position would have to be when Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc end up leaving.
Could we continue to blame January 17 for this mess?

 

Lot of assumptions there most of which I don’t believe will happen

 

It will be voted on and turned down. May will then call a referendum. Choices will be her deal or remain.

 

Tell you what. Go read them. Come back when you have.
Itll open your eyes..

 

No thanks
On the same basis I was told to read Mein Kampf and I refused that also and no I’m not comparing the two only the offers to read them.