O/T Tonight's vote

So May has taken on board all the advice about bringing everyone into the process, yeah?? Er....no. Corbyn has not been invited to the cross-party leaders discussions on how to proceed.

You genuinely could not make this up.

 

The problem with Brexit is that those most vocal in pushing it (and negotiating it) are those who are looking to benefit from it. The leading Leavers fall into one of 3 main categories (and many in all 3):

Rich and hoping to be richer: Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Davis, Dyson, Martin, May, etc
Racist: Farage, Fox, May, Johnson, etc
Overconfident Idiot: Dorries, McVey, Grayling, Johnson, Raab, etc

You could argue that some want to revoke regulations or remove protections or open markets, but they are mainly looking to do that to make more money for themselves.

Every one of them is looking for what is in it for them, not what is the best for the country.

 

A general election is the only way to solve this imo .
Mays intransigence in face of opposition to her red lines including ironically leavers and remainers in her own party is a baseless arrogance .
The Corbyn beaters are out in force stating lies and exaggerations on his premiership. Campaign even in the face of one if the most uncaring greedy avaricious disorganised and divisive Govts since the last Tory govt .
I have spoken to labour voters who have slated Corbyn without them knowing any of labours policies and even blaming him for some of the Tory policies ( unbelievable Jeff)
The BBC,SKY,and ITV along with some of our popular tabloids have an agenda against Corbyn . Probably because some of their accounts maybe in danger in British backed tax havens , who knows .
How this incompetent blundering May led govt can be propped up with out of touch with MPs who exempt themselves from the rest of us in abortion laws etc but vote on our future on the currency of their exemption.
A cross party deal should be the only sensible option and once agreed by parliament and Brussels should be given back to the people and say this is what Brexit looks like ,this is the deal we get if we leave ,do you want it ?

 

As a lifelong Labour voter, and someone that is generally supportive of their aims and previous manifesto, I cannot vote for Labour if their manifesto policy in a GE is to continue with Brexit/renegotiate. I know a lot of people publicly saying the same.

 

Difference with Labour is it will be put back to the people in its entirety .
A proper discussion with cross party input which is what Corbyn is implying . With proper time frames for negotiations with Brussels and at the end of the negotiations the deal laid bare on the table for the people to decide .
I’m a Remainer but if we have a proper discussion with real negotiations by a cross party leave/remain board of negotiators and it’s put back to the people with all the honest information and it’s still leave then imo true democracy has prevailed .
Unlike the last lying / divisive hate filled campaign of Cameron’s

 

European anti avoidance legislation first drafted in Jan 2016 comes into play in Jan 2019. Who could possibly benefit from that not affecting them ?

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...dance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en

 

F****ng Wayne from Kendray does! Then a knock-off cig for dessert.

 

The main problem with your stance is that there are just as many labour voters if not more who would not vote labour if they backed remain. It’s a no win stance.

 

An old post by MDG should be able to answer that more eliquently than I could.

 

I’m not sure that’s quite right, members have unanimously backed remain and a second referendum. I do think there is a strong chance once the fallout truly takes place, political oblivion will ensue for several age old parties. I can easily see Labour splitting, the tories splitting and the Union splitting. There has to be something that supports pro EU and centrism since the left right schisms took hold.

 

As a broad brush generalization, Leave voters are more likely to vote Tory/UKIP, are less likely to vote in GEs and there are only 17m of them (~35% of the electorate). If both Labour and the Tories target these, then both are ignoring a big chunk of the electorate (over 60% in some recent polls).

Labour need to win a majority in England. If they alienate the 16m Remain vote, the family and friends of the 3 million EU citizens, and the young vote. Then they certainly aren't going to win a GE. The maths can't work.

 

From leading member of Vote Leave

 

Got a link to it?

 

Problem with Oliver Norgroves post is that you cannot leave without a deal and not expect sanctions of sorts .
It’s like buying a television on long term loan deal and saying half way through I don’t like your terms so I’m leaving forthwith and keeping the television .
The majority of MPs on both sides realise this and only a few of the Populist ones are indicating no deal .
The only deal on the table for the EU is Mays deal . It isn’t even a Tory party deal who are also split .
This should have been debated before Cameron even launched the referendum .
This has dire consequences for our Union as the backstop and Scottish independence issues are being taken for granted by her intransigence .
The nastiness in most parts are coming from fringe areas of leave and not saying for one minute that the majority of leavers are in this category but the Tommy Robinsons if this world are using the divisiveness to push their hate .
A reasonable stance needs to be clawed back from Mays deal and given to Parliament for a people’s deal not a Tory, labour , Lib Dem deal then put back to the people

 

Folk like me who really have nowhere to go. I'm pro EU, believe in a mainly free market economy but also a well funded social security and health service. Progressive taxation which may also need to increase to fund the welfare system. I think that is fairly centrist and I also think at the moment I'm fecked.

 

No im going from memory.

 

Very close. Government wins by 19 votes.