O/T Tonight's vote

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by ReadingRed, Jan 15, 2019.

  1. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    He only went with a referendum in the first place in order to silence the crazies in the Tory party and to match the stupidity of UKIP. It was certainly nothing to do with serving the interests of anyone else.
     
  2. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I think you could table a motion to prevent it, but unless the EU agreed to a default never ending membership til a deal was agreed, I’m not sure how it is possible. And the right wing would obviously ratchet up their faux umbrage to enrage those that are enrageable.
     
  3. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    The Tory party have had a Euro war for decades, back to Major, back to Thatcher even. He triggered the referendum to stem the eurosceptics and messed it up hugely, but that wouldn’t have mattered had the country been influenced so much by a right wing media and unchecked rampant lies.
     
  4. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    Agree. That's why, like it or not, the most likely outcome is that we request an extension to Article 50 and hold a second referendum when, hopefully, good sense prevails. The fallout would be terrible but less so than that inflicted by a No Deal departure.
     
  5. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    You could table a motion to prevent it, but according to Rees Mogg that motion, if carried would only be advisory and that The EU Withdrawal Agreement being law has precedence over it. As I understand it the Govt would have to voluntarily change track to adopt it.
     
  6. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    And if they changed track, I’m not sure it would have precedent over EU law. We’d need agreement as to what position we’d be in until a replacement deal was agreed, ratified by EU and probably all member states, then maybe we’d prevent a no deal. But then that would mean we’d be in permanent limbo, and what would happen to article 50? Would we lose right to revoke?

    It’s certainly more complex from an agreement and legal perspective than is suggested.
     
  7. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    It's not only been a Tory issue though, Labour were highly eurosceptic in the past, Labour not the Tories had the referendum in 1975 after Heath had taken us in without referendum, and Michael Foot's Labour manifesto of 1983? committed to his Govt negotiating our departure from the EU, Neil Kinnock fully supported that, the change to a europhile stance came from Tony Blair.
     
  8. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Just at the point where I could vote ;-). Thank god for that!
     
  9. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    They
    can’t remove it, if an agreement can’t be made with EU and agreed with Parliament there is nothing left
     
  10. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    Not even another referendum?
     
  11. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Of course they could do that but what if leave wins again, we keep repeating?
     
  12. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, leave voters would be voting on a specific deal that they knew the details of, and everyone would rightfully respect that vote. The deadlock in the commons, the vastly different views of people interviewed and passing comment highlight just how non binary the first referendum truly was, and how it was impossible to interpret the actions the public expected.

    The best of 3 soundbite is just another far right tool to divide and conquer, it was suggested years ago pre referendum by either Rees mogg, farage or Davies (can’t recall exactly) that there should be 2 referendums, one to get opinion, second to ratify action.

    Makes perfect logical sense once you remove politics from the equation.
     
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  13. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Just on the legal issue. Section 1 of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017 provides that the Prime Minister may notify the EU of the UK's intention to withdraw from the European Union. If nothing else happens, we leave the EU on the two-year anniversary of that notice being issued. That's actual legislation - as passed by Parliament.

    We know that the ECJ has ruled that that notice could be unilaterally withdrawn, in which case our membership would continue on the same terms and conditions as we enjoyed previously. I would have thought that in circumstances where Parliament has effectively delegated the right to issue the notification, the position would be that what the Prime Minister can issue she can also withdraw. There is a comment from an EU official to the effect that Parliament's consent to revocation of the notice would be required. I don't see it that way, and the EU official's opinion, not being a judge of the ECJ does not have the same authority as the ECJ's ruling itself, which imposes no condition on the right to revoke. So to me the legal position is clear.

    Of course there would be all sorts of political consequences if the Prime Minister were to proceed to revoke without consulting Parliament. Let's face it, Tuesday night hardly suggested she is in a strong position to anticipate what Parliament will allow her (politically) to do. So for that reason, I think it is unrealistic to expect Mrs May to act of her own volition regarding revocation of the notification without consulting Parliament in some way. Mr Corbyn could have accepted the offer for talks, made his point regarding eliminating the prospect of no deal by whatever means are available, and reported on the outcome of his meeting if he felt the government side had been intransigent or unreasonable. By summarily declining to be involved - except on his terms - he has switched the story from May's historic defeat to his stubbornness and disinclination to compromise.
     
  14. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Not within the current time constraints...another pressure though is that elections to the EU Parliament are scheduled for May.
     
  15. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    It was a suggestion of Rees Mogg's in 2011, but it was not adopted as Govt policy.
     
  16. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    You can see the hypocrisy though, no?
     
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  17. Til

    Tilertoes Well-Known Member

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    I
    I agree with you about the Tory party but short of a completely new party being formed full of sensible, well rounded people that live in the real world there is nobody whatsoever to oppose them.
     
  18. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    I agree it can be viewed that way, but it was his personal view at that time and not the policy adopted by the Govt in which he served and I assume voted in favour of.
     
  19. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    No we don’t keep repeating . We do what should have been done before incompetent Dave and George had their way . And that is obviously finding out what commitments we had made to the EU , what it would mean to get out if these deals, what the consequences would be if we left , what would our future hold , what sort of trade deals could we expect after we left what would happen domestically .all these are what business men face everyday and deal with . Then and only then should we have had a referendum on something like what we may face not lies more lies arrogance and lies and lies again .
     
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  20. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    I honestly do not see your logic .
    This is the mist incompetent set of tw**s that ever set foot in number ten . Their cruelty on our sick and elderly is breathtaking .
    They sold off the family’s jewels of the post office which is closing down and melting in front of any competition that presents itself resulting in massive costs to post a single letter . The rail network is on standstill whilst they still put up their fares solely to pay their shareholders . I could go on and on but people only want to listen what the Tory press are saying about Corbyn.
    Ffs he’s not a dictator he’s in a Democratic Party so even if and it’s a big if he wants to dictate he can’t .
    All the Tory’s hopes are on people listening to their lies they are frightened to death because their rich buddies are in danger of paying a bit of their massive wealth made in our name to build hospitals etc.
     

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