O/T Tonight's vote

Let's drop all the crap. The 'no deal' situation is Brexit - whether or not it includes arrangements to mitigate certain consequences in regard to security, medicines or air travel. All the other arrangements (customs union/single market/ freedom of movement or no) are not really Brexit. The pretence that we can have "the exact same benefits" is incorrect and demonstrably so. This was not made clear before the original referendum. The people need to be asked whether they are (were) up for that type of Brexit. So let's have a vote on full 'no deal' Brexit or remain. People will know where they stand, and the result will be final. It will be over.

 

Yes it’s a different vote but the sentiment is the same even though the stakes are different everybody thinks this lovely person in number ten is a fkin waste of time but we stuck .

 

The Labour Party position is that they can still cut a deal with the exact same benefits.

 

I think Jenkins is mistaken....any deal that May brings back will have been already agreed in Europe....not necessarily ratified, but agreed.

 

With regard to a no deal brexit we were told by the patronising idiots like Gove that German industry would NEVER allow that to happen. Our trade was far too important to them and they'd force the EU into giving us what we wanted.
Well it's getting a bit late for BMW etc to come over the hill like the 7th Cavalry and save the day and is instead looking very much like Custer's Last Stand.

 

No it isn’t where you got that from ?
Labours pisition is totally different to Mays ,
She had red lines that the EU have had to dance around . Labour has no such red lines and would allow everything on the table .
May had arrogantly stuck to her red lines to smooth the Rees Moggs of her party .
In no way whatsoever is Labour negotiating from the same sheet it’s another example of fake news .

 

Dream on!

 

Every Labour spokesman has been clear that Keir Stranger's six tests will provide the exact same benefits and that they are the only party that can deliver it...via staying in the single market and 'a' customs union that still allows us to do separate trade deals.

 

No I don’t think so , everyone in the Labour Party knows we can’t get the exact same benefits .
We would have no say to start with .
The Labour Party have six tests which can be achieved and they have been looked at preliminary by EU negotiators who have intimated they are achievable .
The six tests are different from the exact same benefits which we can only achieve if we stay in .

 

Are they the same Labour brains trust that worked out the ‘affordable’ student loans stuff though.
Thing is Marlon not being funny but we hear loads about right wing propaganda and people ‘buying’ it but you seem to accept everything from the other direction at face value. Let’s have some balance eh?
You go on about Labour membership increasing but it’s a meaningless stat, the vast majority of the country aren’t members of any party and they are the ones who will decide any election, as they did last time when any decent opposition party should have walked it.

 

The six tests is a complete fudge and was used as their stance on voting for a deal... clearly grabbed from the Brown tests for Euro convergence years ago... because it sounds like there are tests and maybe a hint of structure and thinking. But as Abbott admitted last night on QT, the last test is a Davies quote... which is just childish and completely unhelpful.

As for what Labour would do, I can't yet fathom if their plan is a Leninist strategy of let everything fail and sweep to glorious ascension amid the ashes, or they just don't have the foggiest so they speak in soundbite riddled nonsense.

 

You missed out the record number of voters bit and the fiddling of the boundaries by Cameron.
You say labour should have walked it we were massively behind in the pollls there was never any chance given to Corbyn by the polls or media . It’s just a sound bite again from the popular Tory media .
I haven’t accepted anything from the labour propaganda as they aren’t in power. Once again we have people accepting the this govt is **** but there’s no alternative crap .
Corbyn caught up with the Massive gulf deficit in polls last election in fact one of the largest in history but the media gave them no credit that’s why I believe that your just quoting press .
You call labour about the student loans we’ll whst about student fees by this govt an absolute disgrace but you just carry on reading the Tory media .

 

I see where you're coming from but disagree that it weakens our position any further. The Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement (ie, No Deal) is so bad in this case it's like saying, if I don't buy this car off you I'm going to go and buy a unicycle instead of this car.

 

Again, there is no way Labour should have been or be behind in the polls, if he was half way electable he should have walked it and I've no idea what being in power got to do with propaganda? The student fees are a disgrace but Labour allowed the confusion over what they meant about dealing with it to go on through the election.
Also the government is crap but there is no acceptable alternative for a lot of people,I'm not quoting Tory, I travel extensively throughout the north every week and thats what people I talk to are saying