o/t Any ex-miners who could help me with a query about the differences between Yorks and Notts?

Yes mate. What is your project exactly? Let me know if there's anything I can help you with.

 

Yes cave ins had to be shored up and supported with girders and or wood supports before advance and once advanced again same thing until we either got to more secure ground or job abandoned .

 

To be honest, Marlon, it's both for me. My project is in three parts- the 1930s and a mining disaster in the US, the 1984-5 strike here and finally the situation in the coalfied today. So I'm interested in the stories of everyone in terms of the effect of these big political battles on the perspectives of miners and their communities on the ground (and underground).

 

Imo the situation after the strike was that we were abandoned . Not too dissimilar to the Soth of USA after the civil war .
I know it’s a weird comparison but it was devastated by the war and carpet baggers descended into the area and creamed off any valuable real estate or land , opened factories warehouses etc with the minimum pay and conditions they could get away with . Most were in employment agencies without many rights or t&cs not all company’s were like that but enough imo

 

Yes exactly. well now in the Dearne valley where I'm researching you have distribution warehouses like Next and call centres like Capita as the big employers, lots of low wage temporary contracts or zero hours employment.

 

Like I said before water made it difficult and the floor blowing and the roof weighting.

 

The miners in the Working Men's Club I used to sup in, were always resentful of their counterparts
in the Nottingham field, because there had been friction in the past. To get round the dilemma of not
being able to continue working when the Yorkshire lads were out, as we know, they formed the UDM
with Neil Greatrex as their equivalent to Arthur. Whilst the strike was very hard for the lads and caused
a lot of hardship, one thing that was evident, is that the local communities round our pit, all pulled together.
Committees were formed to field donations of food and clothing and in our club anyone in work " adopted"
a couple of lads to buy them a pint or two when they came in. The Committee also issued beer tickets which
was greatly appreciated. The thing that impressed me, was that even through the privation they faced, the lads and
their wives never lost their sense of humour. The only time I saw tangible signs of sadness, was when they
realised that their efforts had been in vain and going back was cold comfort, before the vindictive Government
started to decimate the Yorkshire Coalfield with their closure programme.

 

Out of interest I have a question regarding the people referred to as scabs . Myself and my family were non miners , it's only what I've heard listening to miners talk so excuse my ignorance on the matter , it's just that I am interested in the politics ......
During the strike

Are you saying miners in general were divided before the 84/85 strike ? The only info I can find from the miners who decided to work instead of strike was that no ballot was called so they saw it as an undemocratic strike . Effectively was the division between miners inevitable due to prior disputes ?

 

the quality of working conditions etc was nothing to do with why notts miners worked during the dispute..the tories told them their pits were safe,that scargill was a liar and this is why most chose to work

the notts coal seams are no different to the yorkshire coal seams,in the main they are the same seams but with different names,ie,deep soft is the notts name for the
flockton seam,the top hards was their name for the barnsley seam,high hazels was their name for the kents thick,some of their pits did keep the same names as the yorkshire pits did,there were simply local variations..the yorkshire and notts coalfields share the same geological make up,however the entire area is subject to faulting of various degrees and this is why seams depths vary greatly even at neighbouring pits.

the notts coalfield was no nearer anthracite quality that yorkshire was,the silkstone seam probably being anything of comparable quality and even then it is not anthracite..Anthracite can be found in wales and areas up in north yorks / teesdale and also in pockets in scotland

the cutting of muck bands to raise the ash content in power station fuel is totally dependent on the ash content of a particular seam in any particular area,seams with low ash content,ie the parkgate and barnsley seams require more muck to get the content higher,however prior to the run down of the industry different coals from different seams were blended in order to suit a particular market..power station needed a higher ash ash content because of the way the boilers are fired,a more purer fuel would have burned the linings of the boilers,...at power stations the coal is pulverised to dust the fired in to the boilers under pressure.

different seams supplied different markets,ie,home coals,power stations coals, thermal coking coals etc etc.

i had twenty + years in the industry working at around a dozen pits.i also went to school through the coalboard and sat up to HNC level,a lot of this education as you can imagine was on geology.

 

I was always lead to believe that coal seams were named after the place they hit the serface i may be wrong but having worked in the pits for most of my working life this was told to me on many an occasion by old colliers I am now nearly 70 year old and no one as ever told me different, I went down Barnsley main for my underground training in the 60's and so the Barnsley bed coal seam this must have been between 5 and 6 foot never seen one like it in all my years at Grimthorpe, Dodworth and Redbrook.

 

That’s what I was told as well UPC ,
The seam was named after the area it outcropped .
Thorncliffe,silkstone,parkgate etc.

 

I also believe that senior members of Government had investment in the ports that imported coal from places like Central America, where they put children to work? So there was extra money and incentive in continuing the closers.

 

There was a long gap between the closers and the arrival of the alternative jobs offered by these, interestingly it wasn't until Labour were in power and money was accessed via the EU that Dearne valley, esp around Manvers received any inward investment.

 

The bonus scheme was introduced around 1980. I am sure I was still an apprentice electrician at that time .
This was an huge factor in dividing the workforce.
As many have said already the RIdley report was staged to silence the strengtht the unions had ,as was witnessed. A couple of years before when the Tories backed down on the closure programme .
I was surprised at the comment mentioned about even if the nacods had agreed to strike we would have lost I was under the impression that we were not far off winning the struggle had they voted to strike.
It will go down in history as the last bastion of the workers protesting .
I think it's very sad to see the state of affairs now nothing owned now all in private ownership with loads of directors sat in the house of commons making huge decisions.
Conflict of interest as Jim Royle would say. my arse

 

BFC. I. remember a lot of division prior to the strike.
We had a ballot in the Yorkshire area prior to 1984. I think around 1981.
The mandate was to strike if any pit was closed in Yorkshire other than exhaustion of coal reserves.
Hence when Cortonwood was closed the Yorkshire boys of the num had the mandate to call the strike.
The miners then formed picket lines in other areas asking for support.
There was divisions in the TUC. And the Labour party.
The mistake not to call another ballot of all NUM members still mortified me as I do believe we would have united and got more support from the wider trade union movement.
Example General strike.
My views only

 

have you posted this on the Notts forest, derby county, notts county, mansfield town forums ast well?

Just interested in the counter view point

 

I haven't mate but that's not a bad shout as it would be interesting to hear their views. I can see it getting some abuse as in "Barnsley fan can't move on and comes on to talk about the strike".

I only thought to post this thread on a whim late last night but it's been so great I'm glad that I did!

 

Can recommend a book called " The Enemy Within" by Seamus Milne.
Amazon have it in stock at £11.61. It provides a well balanced view of what happened.


https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-enemy-within/seumas-milne/9781844675081

 

I seem to recall one of scargills inner circle ( I'm wanting to say he was called clarke) going to see colonel Gaddafi for funds. Wasn't he subsequently exposed as mole who did that of his own accord to discredit the NUM? Or have I dreamt this ?? I might read that book myself Donny red

 

Speaking of which the film 'Still the Enemy Within' is a good watch