Brexit - Labour to back 2nd referendum

All true, but not a good reason to keep prevailing with broken systems.

 

Labour have been on a hiding to nothing. Both sides seem to think that all Corbyn has to do is what they want and everything will sort itself out, just as they imagine. Neither side seem to think that splitting Labour votes down the middle is an issue. Or maybe they really dont care..........

 

It is bigotry but with a large hint of the lies and misinformation the leave campaign dredged up .
This is why a proper debate and vote is essential.

 

I think victor had a positive impact on Saturday and sure he miscontrolled it and had a wayward shot but it breathed a bit of life into the flagging forwards.
Is this brexit thing still rumbling on, it got boring even before the vote?

 

May will stand up in the Commons in the next few minutes to say she has listened
to varied opinion and will allow Parliament to have a say, if her attempts
to force her Leave deal through the House is defeated when the vote takes place. ✌️

 

It seems from this interview that Europeans aren’t “that bad”, just those with a “funny tinge”! It seems some people just want to pull up the drawbridge against the whole world! We truly are in the middle of an insanity! The madness needs to stop! As the BFC adage used to say “we are stronger together”!

 

Give me an instance of you voting for a prime minister. Not one where you tell me you voted for a candidate because you didn't like the other party's leader, one where you actually ticked a box next to a prime minister's name, indicating you believed they should be prime minister as was your right in the vote.

 

I'm looking forward to the WTO elections #takingbackcontrol

Xerxes won't reply....he just posts his claptrap. gets proved wrong and hides behind the settee

 

Remind me about that Japan deal just as a flippant example.

Given you have the motivation and ability you can accomplish anything you set your mind to.

The problem is those in charge of this lack both.

 

I'm sure we can knock up a deal with Japan on our own. It can be sorted over cakes and a pot of tea just like the rest of them were going to be done. Apparently.

 

Motivation and ability count for precisely 5/8ths of fuckall when we have nothing worth offering as a small, independent island nation...

 

Weren't we supposed to have all these supposedly better trade deals in place by now? Countries were supposedly going to be falling over themselves to do good deals with us. Have we signed any yet?
The reality was that Obama told us we'd be at the back of the queue. Donny has offered us priority but we all know that a) he's a fecking idiot and b) his idea of a deal is where he gets everything he wants and the other party gets screwed. So that's looking promising!

 

Having a second referendum has the potential to be a disaster for the country and may only further fracture an already divided country.

At the minute 48% of the country that voted "stay" feel bitter due to losing the referendum(the leave voters would feel the same way if the result was reversed). What is going to happen if a new referendum was put to the electorate with (lets say) five choices, and the winning choice gets 26% of the vote(as an example). You now have 74% of the country feeling shafted and bitter.

The original vote was binary, as we should have been able to rely on the MP's we voted to represent us having enough brains and common sense to steer the country towards whichever is the best deal for us. Unfortunately, they are useless so we are all going to be at each other throats over this for generations to come...

 

A vote wouldn't work that way, nor would it be passed by the Electoral Commission. You could structure something on preference, as they do in the London mayoral election where you put your first and second choice, the least popular eliminated and those lapsed votes being reallocated til one option gains over 50%.

Personally I don't see how the country could become any more divided. And I see no way of reconciliation because the views are so polarised and symbolise things in the other that each group despise. The people closer to the middle will have more chance of reconciliation, but the stance this PM has taken, in my view, has made reconciliation impossible.

As for MP's, I cant say they have acted wonderfully in the main, but they have been given an impossible job. Subjectively interpret what Brexit meant, negotiate something based on that subjective interpretation and find a way of pushing that through, knowing you will create harm in doing so, while not breaching legal frameworks within the union.

Its a mess. It will always be a mess. The country is a mess. It will always be a mess for the rest of my generation.

 

The EU-Japan and EU-Canada (and others) deals have clauses in them that explicitly state if the other party (Japan or Canada) offers a better deal to a 3rd country or trade bloc, then they have to reopen negotiations with the EU on those better terms (I *think* its 90 days, but could be wrong on the timescale).

It doesn't matter who we send, how long they take or how motivated they are, they can only legally have a better deal than the EU for 90 days before the EU is negotiating an improvement to the same level. And any country in that position would be mad to negotiate a deal on better terms knowing that it would reopen the EU deal.

 

We don’t feel bitter because we lost, we feel exasperated at the mess the leavers have created and seemingly want to continue to create, whatever the cost.

 

[QUOTE="churtonred, post: 2254577, member: 54253"

The reality was that Obama told us we'd be at the back of the queue.[/QUOTE]

You do know Cameron asked him to say that?

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-07-02...-back-of-the-queue-warning-on-brexit-adviser/

 

Why is the BBS forum so different from the Wath Upon Dearne Facebook page I also follow? On here there is a more reasoned level of debate and a more even spread of opinion. Possibly wrong about the latter as overall the posts may be on balance pro-remain, I haven’t gone to that level of scrutiny. The Wath Facebook page is at least 75% leave at all costs, E.U. bash, local MP bash, Corbyn bash, we fought 2 wars, blah, blah...
My opinion is remain, but I wouldn’t dare say that on the Wath site or I would be shouted down and told my opinions don’t count because I live in a different country.
I grew up in Wath and could see the Oakwell floodlights from my bedroom window, but what a difference those 6 miles make on t’internet...

 

If it’s any consolation the Goldthorpe / miners pages are pretty much the same, far more vitriolic and forthright opinions, 90% leavers shouting about things they seemingly feel confident enough to believe in but not explain. I think Facebook is more extreme in general though it’s the end on the Barnsley FC groups

 

You do know Cameron asked him to say that?

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-07-02...-back-of-the-queue-warning-on-brexit-adviser/[/QUOTE]

It's really immaterial. I'd rather be at the back of Obama's queue than the front of Trump's. Hostages to fortune.