Martina Navratilova

Seriously though why do they have to disadvantage women? And why are so many of their more vocal spokespeople so misogynistic?

I'm live and let live but it does sadden me that some talented girls might find they can never acieved their dreams in the sporting world.

 

You've derailed the thread now (which was inevitable) but we're not discussing transphobia in every day society. This thread is about competitive sport.

 

I shall therefore abstain.

 

Thing is, nobody is saying that they shouldn’t be allowed to transition, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they should be entitled to compete in professional sports, does it? The years of pain and misery that they’ve had to go through doesn’t mean that they should be allowed to compete for women’s trophy’s and prize money. From the other side of the scale (not saying that this will happen, but it’s possible) the 200th top male would EASILY defeat any woman on the female tennis tour. Both of the Williams sisters even played the 203rd ranked man and he beat both of them with ease. Serena even said after that she was playing shots that would win any game on the women’s tour and he was getting to them without even breaking a sweat.
You can read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battl...998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters

All it would take is the 200th ranked man, who realistically has no chance on the male tour, to be malicious, to take advantage and he will be able to collect millions in prize money.

I get that it sets a dangerous precedent to have legal differences between a woman that was born a woman and a woman that was born a man, but I think in this case it has to be done. There is no ‘fair’ solution, but I think the fairest thing is for the transgender women to pursue other careers.

 

Not sure if this is correct but I may or may not have read something that requires an athlete to be under a certain testosterone level to be classed as female.

Think it may be in regards to the Maria Murtola situation.

 

The world is ****** imho.

 

You should only be able to compete with others who were born the same sex, so I agree with Martina.

 

Yes that's what I read too.

 

I genuinely can’t believe what I’m reading... “all it would take...”

Ever decreasing circles of discrimination, openly encouraged and endorsed, truly staggering.

 

Show me where anyone is encouraging discrimination.

 

If you can’t see the numerous paragraphs of discrimination against trans m2f would be athletes in multiple posts, well... there’s nothing more to be discussed with you.

 

I genuinely can't see the discrimination that you're referring to in this thread. It's an extremely complex issue but to take a view that in sport it offers an unfair advantage is not supporting discrimination.

 

Then reread the comments, plenty in there to go at.

 

Nope I see no discrimination.

 

Maybe you need to read them again whilst remembering that this discussion is about unfair advantages in professional sport.

 

I think what Navratalova has said is not discrimination. It's just stating the bloody obvious. The stats Conan indicated showing that there are 200 male sprinters whose personal best is better than the women's world record shows how obvious it is. To allow it to continue is nothing more than discriminatory towards athletes born female.

If a person competing in womens sport was caught taking male hormone drugs they would be rightly banned. But its ok if they were born with them?.

I haven't seen a single post on this thread that is anything other than sympathetic and supportive of a person's right to be recognised as transitioned to the sex they believe they should be. But to allow transitioned MF people to compete on level terms with born females is simply unfair on born females.

 

If that's all you took from my post, you're not even trying to debate, you're just looking for reasons to get offended.

By 'all it would take' I was in no way trying to downplay the severity of what transgender people have to go through.
Let me put it this way, I guarantee 100% that I know more transgender people than you ever have.
I used to be a part of a large community that had multiple trans people that I spoke to almost every day, so trust me when I say that I understand and sympathise with what they have to go through. Please don't take this as a 'some of my best friends are *insert minority group here* that's not my intention. It just pisses me off to no end that you seem to think I am being discriminatory when I am about as far as you can get from that)

It's relatively easy in the UK to legally change your gender (which, for the avoidance of doubt, I 100% agree with), which if applied to professional sport could lead to maliciousness. A gender dysphoria diagnosis and having lived as your acquired gender for 2 years. That's all it takes. (source: https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate) Or would you only allow people that have gone through the reassignment surgery to compete? Is that not discrimination also by your logic?

 

There really aren't.

I love the modern age, it's absolutely beautiful that people can be the person they want to be. It makes me happy. I was brought up in the 80's and we were genuinely told that we had to be careful as kids around 'the blackies' by our elders. My own family spoke about 'gays' like some kind of mythical disease. Seems really backwards now when I look 'back', but that's how it was. I think the world has come a long way in a short time in respect to topics such as this.

I can't say I'll ever understand why someone would want to be male, rather than female, and vice versa. But just because I don't understand why, that doesn't make it wrong. I think 30 years ago and previous, people assumed different was wrong.

However, I've seen nothing in this thread of a discriminatory or prejudiced nature. It's about the problems that sports face now the world has come to accept transgender athletes.

I've done a fair bit of reading on the subject and it seems that nature will give a person born male a distinct physical advantage over people born female. And whilst HRT will alter those advantages, the writing suggests not significantly enough to rule out a strong advantage if competing against women.

I genuinely have no idea what the answer is, it's a difficult subject. 30 years ago this would have seemed an absolute fantasy argument.

Progress.

 

The thing is, you don't have to have any HRT, surgery or anything like that to be classed as a woman. This is what he doesn't understand. You don't have to alter your body in any way to live as the opposite gender. Again, which I agree with.
But there's no question it gives an advantage.

 

I truly cannot believe that some people who I thought reasonable cannot see the comments mentioned are discriminatory.

And the fundamental heart of that discrimination is that multiple people have used language that highlights they don't see trans people as the gender they are, but the gender they were born as.

Anyway, I'm done.

I clearly don't belong here amongst bigots who don't even realise what they are and defend their standpoint with typical pack mentality under the guise of sport is different.

So long.