Martina Navratilova

Offering an alternative viewpoint is now classed as discrimination?

Ok, thanks for the heads-up.

 

The thing is, the only way I feel female is by my body.

 

Dividing people into categories in sport is necessary to have sensible competition and is not discriminatory. It is not ageist to stop Usain Bolt from competing in the under 14s race.

We now understand and acknowledge that gender isn't binary. Nevertheless an arbitrary line must be drawn somewhere. The only alternative is to say that as gender is a spectrum we should have no categories, and then watch as men win pretty much everything for the rest of time. That would be the most "inclusive" method but on any sensible analysis would be discriminatory to women and trans athletes. In the same way I think that allowing trans athletes to compete with women discriminates against women.

Trans people should be afforded the respect and dignity of being recognised as the gender they identify as, but there's no escaping the fact that they have a distinct physical advantage in sport. There's no easy answer as to how to address this, but to me the answer isn't to allow them to compete against athletes who were born women.

 

Having read through this post all you seem to be doing is saying people are saying discriminatory things but not giving any examples. Various posters are making efforts to understand the issues in making sport fair and inclusive for everyone, you don't address these you just keep saying the same thi g over again. Including more than once saying you are done posting on this subject.

 

What happens when they come with the "I'm transgender I deserve a ten metre head start" ?

 

The only way to make everything totally inclusive is to abolish gender from every sport and let everyone compete from scratch. The pay and glory benefits would be available for everyone to earn.

 

There isnt even sigificant numbers of transgenders though. Under 1% of the popualtion seems to be a constant figure when looking into this in a bit more detail.
So less than a million people.

 

I don't believe this has been done in this thread once. Can you show me an example of where you've seen this?

I don't know why I bother, you're not even willing to be reasonable, but let me give you an example and you tell me how you would handle the situation.

Roger Federer comes out as transgender. Diagnosed with gender dysphoria and starts living as a woman. In 2 years legally becomes a woman, they don't feel the need to have reassignment surgery, HRT etc. They only wish to live as a woman. Maybe they only want to get breast implants, which do not affect hormones in any way.


Would you allow them to compete with other women? If not, why not? If so, do you not think there's an advantage there? I'm talking purely from a sporting competition point of view.

Comments like this, when there is no bigotry on show hurt transgender people and other minority groups almost as much as bigoted comments, FYI. You are turning people against trans people, either consciously or subconsciously, by overreacting to reasonable debate.

 

But already enough that it's affecting women's sport e.g.. cycling.

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to, 99% of this thread has shown genuine empathy for transgender people and the fact that you are labelling others on here as bigots- possibly including me, have no idea- is more of a sad indictment of yourself.

If you cannot be bothered to educate others about any potential comments that you deem are out of order then you are part of your perceived problem IMO. Comes across as childish and hypocritical.

 

Look at Rachel McKinnon the Canadian cyclist, Caster Semenya the S. African runner.
We accept that women who have transitioned are physically stronger so eventually we reach a point where all women's competitions will be won by women who have 'transitioned' i.e. women who were at one time men.

What is wrong with that?

 

theres nothing wrong with it pal

people like love child clearly search for bigotry or offence,but in his favour he still hasnt got to grips with thicko's who voted leave,so i think he's in a dark place and in a world where everybody is against err,well,everybody. bless him , he needs a comfort blanket.

 

that is the 'go to' response of so many these days, particularly when they are getting offended on behalf of other people...

 

I see your point but I think that you are missing the big point that is generally being expressed here. You can accept the gender that someone decides to be AND also accept that in certain circumstances that gender choice will give them an unfair advantage in a sport.

 

There are some very interesting thoughts online too about the famous tennis superstars "The Williams BROTHERS!"

 

that's right -
you either accept that some women who were at one point male have an unfair advantage if competing against women who have not transitioned. Or you have to discriminate against these women by not allowing them to compete against women who have not transitioned.

 

They do have an unfair advantage. Even those who have had their tallywhacker lopped off. A fair number of these athletes who have “transitioned” have appeared to have done the bare minimum to become female.

So a hormone course for example to lower testosterone as an example.

Soon as their sporting careers over they can and some will, resume their lives living as men.

It’s insulting to those women who have spent years honing their skills to expect them to compete with all but the shouting.... men.

We’ve spent years as a nation and globally as a civilised western society campaigning to improve women’s rights and equality and this row seems to be doing one thing. Pushing these rights backwards.

 

As is their right. One thing I've learnt from the trans people that I know is that being 'female' means something different to all of them. Some have dysphoria with regards to their genitalia, their chest, some not at all and it's simply a state of mind thing for them.

That does not mean that they have the right to compete in professional sports, however.

 

Absolutely hilarious, I bet Serena's husband and daughter agree.