Revoke A50 Petition

I am a UK citizen living in Ireland since 2001 and didn't get a vote in 2016 and wouldn't get one now. EU citizens living in UK in 2016 also didn't get a vote but Commonwealth citizens living in UK did. This led to the strange situation of two UK based Indian programmers my company employed getting to vote Leave the day before their contract ended in 2016 prior to returning to Chennai. It was weird.

 

How many people do you know? The average American knows about 600 people, can't find an equivalent study for UK. 600 people from 17.6 million people. You talk about "what most of us thought was going to happen" as if you know all 17.6 million.....

 

and did that mean that many people didn't vote because it was expected to be a forgone conclusion?

 

You cannot though ignore the fact that Leave.Eu acted after being advised by the Electoral Commission that their intention was within the rules.

 

Eyup, must have missed this thread, just thought I`d add to it.

Thats all folks.

 

But what about Labour Leave? What about Aaron Banks donating £8m that he doesn't have? What about the DUP spending on advertising in London? Thats just the ones off the top of my head. It wasn't just Leave.EU.

 

If the FA told Sunderland they could play their next game with 12 men and they did, although not their fault would still be deemed unfair. Obviously that’s a sporting analogy, but still runs true. Just because they were told their actions were fair, doesn’t mean they were. The facts are they weren’t. It’s another example of the farce the initial referendum was.

If is not unreasonable to request a second say given the initial referendum was littered with false promises and sketchy (likely illegal) practices.

 

Here’s Jacobs latest, seems he’s either got zero principles or he was lying all along. And yet some still think he’s on their side.

 

So, IF we were to have another referendum and, just supposing Remain side of the debate ( i.e. Revoke A50), just won by 51%-49% or even 52% - 48%, does anyone seriously think that would be the end of the argument and resolve the situation?

After all the original vote was to change the status quo i.e. We were in the EU we voted to leave the EU.

A new vote to revoke A50 would again change the 'status quo' which is that the current UK law (subject to change by TM) states we leave 'no deal' on a specified date or on that or another specified date if we agree the only deal on offer. On that basis the 2nd vote is no more valid than the 1st. Leavers would rightly call foul. If the margin is significantly higher for remain then, I for one, would reluctantly accept that A50 should be revoked, although I believe that remainers may well come to realise in the longer term, that the benefits of doing so are not as they expect, in the same way any benefits of leaving were hugely exaggerated by the pro-leave camp.

 

That's fair enough, the first time I read something it may be mildly interesting. However, it's the constant tedious brain-microwaving repetition of the same dreary arguments over and over again that does my head in. Especially when some posters start getting frustrated and resort to foul language and insults. To me, it's indicative of the state of parliament and the country as a whole - an international laughing stock.

 

The Law states that we leave with No Deal on May 22nd at the moment, unless a deal is agreed or the UK makes significant changes to its negotiating strategies. The vote in Parliament last night pretty much secured the extension past April 12th. If TM doesn't change the date (from March 29th), it leaves us in a legal limbo with being part of the EU but not the legal (within the UK) framework to go with it. At the moment, it is pretty certain that we will be having EU elections in May (No Deal was rejected by Parliament) while we sort our **** out.

If Remain won a 3rd referendum, then I would expect Leave to do exactly what they should have been doing for the last 40 years. Go away and actually come up with a plan that could work. This plan could be No Deal, Norway+, SuperDuperCanadaLuper, or anything else, but once they have a coherent plan they are welcome to put it to a public vote based on that plan (and only that plan).

I think I posted it earlier, but the reason they didn't have a defined plan for the referendum is that they can't actually agree on one. As soon as it is written down, it upsets one or more of the factions. The Disaster Capitalists (Rees-Mogg, etc) want full separation so they can make lots of money, The American Fan-boys want (Hunt) something similar so they can sell the NHS to the USA (and make lots of money), the racists (Yaxley-Lennon) want to get rid of non-white people, the power-mad (Johnson) so they can become PM, the Commonwealth fans want to import more South Asians to replace Europeans (Javid, Patel), etc, etc.

 

I think your last paragraph highlights the main problem. Not just politicians but 99.9% of the voters have decided remain or leave, in spite of all the clap trap regarding claims of altruistic reasoning, base, ultimately, on how it impacts them as an individual or their immediate family and personal circumstances. More accurately, how they perceive it will impact them based on all the propaganda and misinformation and lies we have been fed on both sides.

I do not exclude myself from that, we have, or pretty much all made up our minds on both sides, when in truth, no one really knows, what will happen if we stay in the EU or Leave.

Looking at expert's opinions, very few are in a position to give 100% balanced view unaffected by personal circumstances. People representing the CBI, NFU, small businesses, Fishermen, CEO's of companies, Financiers etc. etc. all have their own agenda. Nothing sinister but certainly the status quo clearly favours certain sectors of industry, business and finance whilst breaking free of the EU may help others. The same can be said of politics. How often does a Labour leader applaud or even acknowledged a Conservative policy as being a good thing for the country, or a Conservative leader applaud or even acknowledged a Labour policy as being a good thing for the country? No one party has exclusive rights to good ideas. Sadly this attitude has filtered down over the years to we, the electorate, and everything is now black and white and politics are polarised to such an extent that they are damaging the country.

 

i simply base it on everyone,to a man (or woman) who i know that wanted to leave,did so on the basis of cut all ties,

I watch BBCQT and all the leave supporters are happy to leave in that manner,i have yet to see anyone on there who voted leave say they did so subject to a deal

i'm on upteen forums, for business.ex mineworkers,HGV drivers,musicians etc and all that voted leave want out,end of, I have yet to see anyone of these demanding any deal what so ever.

i've just listened to jerry vines show and all the leavers wanted out in this exact same manner

 

that is not what i said and well you know it

what you cant do is grumble about the vote and demand another one

 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-21/union-and-business-leaders-in-joint-brexit-plea-to-pm/

To quote:

Together we represent millions of workers and tens of thousands of businesses. It is on their behalf that we are writing to you to ask you to change your Brexit approach.

“Our country is facing a national emergency. Decisions of recent days have caused the risk of no deal to soar. Firms and communities across the UK are not ready for this outcome. The shock to our economy would be felt by generations to come.”

edit:

“Second, securing an extension has become essential. Eighty-eight per cent of CBI members and a majority in Parliament agree this is better than no deal.

Are you telling me 88% of the CBI members were remain voters?

 

i'm unsure what this quote has to do with my statement that leave voters were prepared to leave with no deal?

 

'i'm on upteen forums, for business.ex mineworkers,HGV drivers,musicians etc and all that voted leave want out,end of'

The CBI represent millions of workers and thousands of businesses. They're telling us that 88% did not want to leave with no deal.

If I'm interpreting what you are saying correctly you are saying that everyone you have spoken to just wants to leave (even without a deal).

 

Musicians, and other people that work in the arts, are significantly affected by Brexit and a large majority are pro-Remain. As it stands, it will make it significantly harder and more expensive for bands and artists to tour Europe and make it much more difficult for them to succeed. It has been made a lot harder for foreign artists to come into the UK from outside the EU to perform over the last couple of years too. Sony Music has also moved headquarters to Amsterdam.

Those that are strongly leave are either conveniently ignoring the problems they had touring Europe before the EU (Roger Daltrey), have always been racists (Morrissey), or don't live in the UK (Lydon).

 

26 million workers in this country are not members of any trade union whatsover

no,not everyone i've spoken to wants to leave with no deal, it is just those who voted leave who are prepared to leave with no deal..

when i do find a leave voter that did vote leave but with the provision of a deal i will let you know.

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/

this organisation pretty much sums my stance on the eu, the literature on their site is well worth reading

 

But thats the point im making. Are you saying all 88% of these people that the CBI are quoting were all remainers?