O/T Shemima Begum - Legal Aid

On the nail

 

I 100% believe she knew what she was doing, what it was all about and what they ( ISIS) were doing, her father hates the west and was on a rally with the creature who tried to behead Lee Rigby. maybe start at home, but this should not swerve away from what she ( alleged) did I understand due process but it doesn't prevent me from having a mindset of how think they should be dealt with. James Bulger killers were 10, kids, but I would be over the moon if one day I woke up to find out they had been killed

 

I agree with most of what you have written in the first paragraph, less so the second. But actually, that's not why I am replying. I just wanted to say that I think that this is a very measured and well argued post, which really adds to the quality of the discussion. If more people posted their opinions in this way (many do, but just as many don't), then debating divisive and highly emotive issues on here would be far more pleasant for everyone.

 

Well there aren't many personal insults flying around which is always a nice thing to observe.

 

I suspect that the authorities already know where to look.

 

Never suggested otherwise. However, if someone is brainwashed/devoted/follower etc of a conservative religious doctrine then the first place anyone with common sense who look at where they studied and/or worshipped.

Be it Islamic, Buddhist, Christian,Jewish or Hindu.

 

Well without a trial none of the arguments from both sides can be tested .
The fact we can make rules on the cuff to suit political agendas is worrying , what next ? Burglars hands chopped off ? It may sound far fetched but who knows what can be brought in on a whim or politicians agenda.
I don’t know who or what got into these girls heads or whether they should’ve renounced or what .
To say you can be groomed for one act and not another is selective at best imo grooms groomed whatever the act performed.
I have a suspicion on Djavid s actiobs if I’m honest .
Some of our laws ,punishments etc should be open for debate the four bstds that stole a lorry and killed the lady in Brierley for instance should be further up the govts agebd as these events are happening almost daily and families are being ignored .
She should be brought home and put on trial where any accusations of wrongdoing can be brought and tested .

 

Still not that simple... unless you have evidence that a high proportion of people at the same Mosque were radicalised?
I'm guessing not - just like 'victims' in the Catholic Church and elsewhere - she will have been picked out because of her vulnerability.

When we're talking about taking advantage of children - whether it's grooming for sex or any other motive - the pattern is the same.

And Yes; vulnerable teenage girls in Northern towns were enticed by attention and alcohol and drugs, just the same as kids have been given 'special attention' since the beginning of time by predatory adults.

The shocking truth is that most of these 'kids' don't realise they're victims until years later - it could be argued that S B's 'bravado' when initially interviewed occurred whilst she's still coming to terms with what actually happened to her.

 

And there in lies the million dollar question. Is it just a small minority of that specific community, a handful of nut jobs recruiters and foot soldiers or is it a steadily growing number. Is it just kids facing this, or is it adults, men and women alike as well?
Especially given the current trends towards more conservative Islam. The more conservative the doctrine the greater likelihood there will be increases in those heading down the path of extremism.

It’s not a new circumstance either. Quite possibly the most well known Mosque for Islamic radicalisation is Finsbury Park. It took 10 years or so clean that specific little rats nest out.

How many passed through it’s door and went from moderate to ultra conservative Islam? How many similar smaller Mosques are there which provide the same learnings without the fame, especially in London a city that gained its nickname of Londonistan due to the lapse nature of the British authorities when dealing with extreme islamic entities during the 90’s...

Then there’s the madrasa schools. Most of which have little in the way of regulation or scrutiny. Who knows how many have passed through the doors or what has been taught in these classes. Or even where the money is coming from.

Whether someone is vulnerable appears to be very much down to a viewpoint. There’s Begum who a number of people in power state she was brainwashed/groomed/coerced into believing that specific religious outlook and there’s Greta Thunberg a girl who at 16 is championed by the same powers that be as a climate change guru and in some outpourings on social media something akin to the second coming of Christ.

Both have been fed through out their short live scoring a diatribe of indoctrination on their chosen subjects. What’s the difference?

Are the people to blame the ones pulling the strings? Or do we accept that a 15/16 year old is capable on the face of things understanding what they are being taught.

It’s a minefield that no one really can answer with any definitive outcome either way.

As for the bravado, if the reports are true she was part of the religious police then the brainwashing angle is thrown straight out of the water.

 

I would allow her entry on the understanding that she named and corroborated the despicable ******** that groomed her.
Then cut the jail sentence down to ten years or so.
Misguided yes, ignorant of the consequences, no.

 

Do you seriously believe that? Sheesh! You must move in different circles to the ones I have lived in.
So what age DO they suddenly become aware of right and wrong and a grasp of the world as it is? I ask as a certain Labour party and it's leader what to give 16 year olds the vote are you saying 14-16 is a watershed for teenagers then where they have a 'sudden epiphany'?

 

I was a complete cabbage until I turned 17. Then I became a fruitcake.

 

It might also be the case that she's just a 'slack' lass. Sounds a bit oversimplified to put it like that but hopefully you know what I mean

 

There was an asylum in London once called 'Fruitcake asylum'. Full of nuts.

 

Sadly there are humans who are susceptible to the tricks of those who will seek to distort their concept of right and wrong.

This is irrespective of age.

But to answer your question, no I don't seriously believe that. Which is why I pointed out the legal age of criminal responsibility (which I must admit does seem a bit low).

 

Bang on, A **** of a man, I was out there fighting and we all thought WTF is this government doing ? It was all about foreign contracts and oil, not as Blair led SOME to believe WMD, Iraq was a safer place when Sadam was at the helm, they had one lunatic then, now they have thousands. Same as Lybia. As someone who as been out to the places I look in disbelief at what western governments have done all in the name of " we want to give them democracy" they didnt/ want democracy, there culture and heritage is not built on that. The same government that sent me to fight also paid for the solicitors to try and do me for war crimes, that's why I detest the party ( btw the solicitors chasing the troops got found out to be cnuts)

 

A genuine question, and a respectful one to someone who has served in the military, why do you get so angry at Jeremy Corbyn - someone who consistently argued against these conflicts, has been proven right time and time again, and is one of the few politicians who wouldn't expose our armed forces to dangerous wars based on interests beyond national security?

 

Because he as a love in with certain terrorists groups, he stood for the 8 PIRA who were taken out in Loughall by the SAS,he stood in solidarity with the hunger strikers, he claimed Hezbollah were his friends, I also hate socialist ideas, he never condemned Venezuela's government where their country is a train crash. He attended terrorist funerals ( terrorists who most probably killed our lads) before he became who he is today.

 

But don't you think he was actually trying to find peaceful ways to bring an end to those conflicts, taking our armed forces out of the line of fire whilst other politicians were more than happy to send them to and continue those conflicts?

 

Are Hamas a peaceful organisation?