Sorry all ...but Brexit

Point of order: you voted for leaving with a deal just as much as you voted for leaving without one. That's the problem with trying to solve real life problems with blunt instruments like referendums.

 

As had been said on here numerous times and I agree that not all voters for leave are racist bigots but all racists bigots voted leave.

 

And your solution would be ??

 

How do you know Marlon ? Will Self has a lot to answer for. Scotland voted remain, go to a Celtic match and you’ll meet as many racist bigots as you’d ever care to.

 

I'd class Yvette cooper as a racist bigot and she voted remain . Go check out her voting record on war . Many a Muslim has died on the back of her and her accociates opinion .

 

Right now? I don't have one.

My solution would have been to accept that the country was pretty much split down the middle back in 2016, and move towards something like membership of EFTA immediately. Once that was done (and I reckon it would have been done quickly) we could have seen how things panned out for a few years and then planned our next move, either further away from or back into the EU depending on the evolution of public opinion.

After the referendum there was obviously no mandate to leave things as they were, but nor was there one to press the red button and drag half the country into a full-on nuclear no deal Brexit against their will.

 

I'll back Marlon here. I've had a really good debate about Brexit on here with Marlon and a couple of others. We agreed to disagree and showed some mutual respect for genuinely held opinion. The visceral debate that hasn't moved on from the original referendum is part of the problem. Btw. Someone mentioned newsnight last night. It featured the Redcar MP who was arguing remain and without irony brought up how democracy had been betrayed. Her constituency voted 66 per cent leave and she was elected in 2017 election on a party manifesto of implementing the referendum.

 

I guess she would argue that many a Muslim had been saved because of her as well, but that’s not my argument as I disagreed with her re the wars.
I don’t think there’s a consensus or proof other than your opinion that she’s a racist .

 

tad naïve her Marlon.
Many 'racist bigots' are members of the increasingly right wing Nationalist European parties. They will vote remain because they want to retain the EU and be part of it but with a Nationalist/Right Wing agenda.

If as predicted the EU will comprise many Right wing groups following the election it will be interesting to see how many U K Remainers change their stance.

 

The problem with that is that it would involve accepting that the EU is democratic, even in some small part. That would be a huge reversal, and I'm not sure the arguments currently being used by the right are subtle enough to manage it without the message getting confused.

 

I’m very sceptic of any right wing racist groups being pro EU tbh but I’m open to it with a mind to finding evidence .
I’ve never come across any racist bigots voting remain but once again I’m open to proof .
The only thing crossing my mind at the minute re racists being pro EU is to probably con votes can’t see past that at present if it’s true tbh.

 

I’ve been to a Celtic match ,v Motherwell first game and season after Larsson left . Terry Butcher was manager of Motherwell . I was in the Lisbon Lions Stand and I didn’t advertise my English accent very much and was glad to get away , I felt more like an away fan than a neutral tbh .
One thing I did note was that there were loads of Motherwell fans with England shirts on and scarves . Not sure that was to antagonise the Bhoys fans or whether there were loads of England fans supporting them that day lol.
Didn’t wait to find out won’t be going back there in a hurry .

 

The question is not whether the right wing/nationalist parties are pro or anti EU.
The issue for them is that the more representation they have in the EU (whether they like the EU or not) the more power they will have to promote their right wing/racist agenda
They have more power within the EU than they do if they're not in it.

I voted to leave the EU because I don't want to be part of what I saw as potentially a very nationalistic organisation.

People may well tolerate Juncker and Barnier but would anyone like to be part of an organisation headed by say President Orban of Hungary (hand in glove with Putin)

 

Not only that, but somewhere in the region of 80% of the UK economy is service-based, along with 80% of the jobs. Going to WTO - even just losing FoM and SM access - will make the sale of services into the EU a lot more difficult, if not impossible. In 2017, the direct sale of services into the EU was worth something upwards of £100bn per year - or about 6% of the UK economy. That does not include the indirect employment and contribution from *that* to the economy - although a rough estimate would put it at several times that figure.

So, given that WTO is expected to decimate Manufacturing (some could argue it already is), and Farming, losing services to that scale as well would be an unsustainable hit to the economy.

 

Not only are the alt right in the EU a political threat they are an economic one. Italy has a right wing government who passed an anti austerity budget that would have taken them to 133 per cent of borrowing to GDP. The EU rejected it. If there is a more right wing EU they might get away with it. The bail out if they defaulted would be huge. Eurozone or no, guess who'd be helping picking up that bill to prop up the euro, welcome to austerity 2.0

 

Freedom of movement though isnt about being able to move live and travel through out europe..it relates to the movement of people for employment...

And id argue the ghost towns of Poland where the young have left for Blighty are poorer for it.

 

Long before he went on to lead UKIP, Farage worked in the City as a Metal trader and for twenty two years,
he was a member of the Conservative Party. He has recently been asked to account for a £450k donation
from avid Brexit supporter Aaron Banks and as to the reason why, he never declared any interest to the EU Commission.

The reason he's given, was that he was intending to quit politics to seek a new life in the States.!
Make of that what you will.? Drop the UK well and truly in the " do do" after helping us to exit the EU
and then disappear into probable anonymity for a new life in the USA with his pensions from the EU Parliament
and eventually one from the DWP.? What a truly dedicated "little Englander" he is.

 

Can you explain the WTO rules to me please? Who voted in the WTO? how many other countries trade on WTO rules?

It’s a sound byte I keep hearing but nobody has ever explained it

 

The cynical amongst us would be scratching our heads and wondering why on earth this has suddenly come to light on the eve of an election where should the polls be right (for a change) pro EU parties are going to take a bit of a kicking...

Whats also of interest the Electoral Commission has prior to the vote already investigated the Brexit Partys funding and said no case to answer.

 

Just on WTO rules? - None. The last one was Mauritania (who still have slavery), and they got a free trade agreement this year.

On WTO rules - everyone. All trade deals have the WTO rule as a basis then expand on it by mutually reducing tariffs and increasing access for services, etc.