Sorry all ...but Brexit

The man has " form" extending way back to when UKIP was first founded. He's propounded and supported some
outrageous theories in his chequered past, but hitherto seems to have escaped unscathed. It's in the interest of the Tory press to badmouth and smear the likes of him and Corbyn, as the Tories are absolutely scared sh*tless of them both.

Educated predictions indicate that the Tory Party could now well be a spent force. I've seen polls that suggest
that because of their ditherings and lack of cohesion, they would win very few seats if a General Election was held now.

Having said that, the electorates choice in the EU elections tomorrow and in a GE, when it eventually happens,
will most definitely be completely different. Interesting to see that Corbyn and Macdonnell have said that if Labour win
and form the next Government, they would pass up on moving into Downing Street to continue living in their current homes.

That will go down well with some of the Civil Servants my former colleagues and myself met on our regular visits
to meetings in Westminster. We used to stand our corner regarding Yorkshire and the North in general and revelled
in stirring things up. A female Civil Servant from our region told us once we were known as the " Yorkshire Mafia".

My boss couldn't attend a particular meeting and I was therefore there alone. I was asked a question that was above
my level of authority and said " you will have to leave that with me and I will ask our "Don" for his opinion when I get back."
The bloke asking the questions face was an absolute picture.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...andals-rivals-brexit-party-european-elections

 

The problem is vote splitting rather than say Brexit party winning votes .
In one Scottish constituency’s result at the last general election the results went something like (not the accurate results but near enough imo )
Labour 32% SNP 32% Tories 33%. .
The Tories won but you’d hardly call it a fair reflection on the voters as the majority were anti Tory .
Under our voting system we end up with an unbalanced representation .
The call for a referendum to balance this was campaigned against by guess who ?
The two major party’s have a stranglehold on the voting systems and the results it inevitably brings.
We end up with a party ruling what the majority voted against
The EU referendum was voted on vote for vote but without the caveat of a fixed border line which should have been put in place eg 55% to enact the result.
Most societies use this system in fact the Tories insist on an unfair % on a trade union ballot sometimes as much as 75% before action is allowed and they should have put one on this .
52% to 48% is a ridiculous majority to force on the country imo.

 

PR have you not realised nobody explains anything -

Does anyone know what the 'Irish Backstop' really is - what being part of the Customs Union means - what was the Brady Amendment - what was the Malthouse protocol - the legality of Article 50 - the myth that MP's are voting for a 'Deal' - (they're not they're voting on the first step to secure a 'Deal' (which will finally happen about 10 years from now)
The myth that Leavers didn't know what they were voting for and the Remainers did - In a weeks time the EU will be very different to the one of today. The fact is the Leavers have an idea who will be controlling their laws etc and if they want to they can vote these people out.
The Remainers have the uncertainty of who will decide European Law - who will be EU President - The leader or Romania or possibly Hungary?? and there wont be much they can do about it if they don't like what is happening.

 

Except that the EU Parliament is directly elected (as we will do tomorrow); the EU Council comprises the directly elected heads of state of the member countries, and the EU Commission is appointed by the Council with the agreement of the EU Parliament. You might want to contrast that with our own law-making system, which requires the approval of the unelected House of Lords and the signature of the unelected hereditary monarch!

Furthermore, a small portion of our laws are enacted by the EU bodies, but I'd happily accept a lot more of them rather than the Conservatives' legislative efforts which have trashed our public services, weakened our law and order and defence facilities and further enriched the wealthy while worsening the plight of the poor and homeless.

 

Of course they are terrified, Nige has the personality as an individual, Corbyn has the force of cult cos he hasn’t really got the persona or charisma of Nige or Bliar as examples.

Both have scandals to their name, Farage mostly around funding money and where it comes from, Corbyn has his around his association with various terrorist figures and the party being mired in anti Semitic abuse and allegations.

Both are still somehow remain standing...

Politics in the UK is a mess, riddled with Londoncentric MPs, Nepotism, Cronyism and fiddling.

Hopefully the swamp gets drained and we start having politicians worthy of the name again...

 

Marlon I think I'm right in saying that most if any european democracies don't use the super majority system, certainly not in any EU related referendums, no country has ever required a super majority to join the EU or to ratify any EU Treaty ...simple majorities have always sufficed, some of them similar to our 52-48 . The reason being is that the super majority suits those who don't want change and prefer the status quo, it's a perfect tool for Govts who wish to appear democratic but can unilaterally set the bar too high for change.
Imagine the outcry if anyone had suggested a super majority for the Scottish Indyref.. the Scot Nats who have cried foul...and rightly so.

 

She's not sold the gold off cheaply like Brown or sent our troops to their death like Blair. But she's closer to their level of garbage than she is the upper tier with the likes of Churchill.

 

I assume when Gordon made the soundbite, he wasn't aware that The People's Vote Campaign use the same system..

From their website..
"We need to raise £195,000 in order to campaign effectively in these elections. This battle fund will be absolutely crucial.
As we are now in a regulated campaign period for the European Parliamentary elections, we are campaigning in them as a non-party campaigner. As a result we are registered with, and regulated by, the Electoral Commission during this period. This means that donations over £500 have to be verified as permissible, and those over £7,500 published by the Electoral Commission, as required by law.
We have, therefore, set the donation limit to £499 because in a regulated period, any donation for campaign purposes below £500 is considered a small donation, which means that individual donors don’t have to be checked.
Any cheques should be made payable to 'Open Britain Ltd – People’s Vote'."

I'm not 100% certain but I think the Labour Party do too.

 

It was all going so well until you turned it into the kind of irrational unfounded rant I see on Facebook.

 

The Tories use it as and when it pleases and when it suits imo .
They bestow it on Trade unions and public services with very high % before industrial action etc can be taken
This was one such time it was imo to be used ,
It didn’t need a super majority but a 55% would just about have been fair 48%_52% is almost splitting the country and the inevitable fall out this had caused.
I think if this had been requested before the referendum I don’t think either side would have objected imo.
The Scots Nats are crying foul anyway and rightly so imo the whole shebang has been ill thought and implemented by a incompetent Tory govt propped up with a power hungry Lib Dem headless chicken leadership.
Even with a majority they messed up taking the country with them.
Imo the world is too far gone to turn back from the right wing agenda it has “democratically “ taken .
The bombing of women and children and the vitriol they receive when they try to run away from it says everything imo.
Tbh Brexit is nothing compared to what we are sowing for our future so I don’t know why I bother tbh.

 

Only based on communications with Europeans but as far as I am aware if you wish to change the constitution in a continental European country you need an overall majority 65% 35% , they don't use first past the post . Theres a speech by Alice weidel in the German parliament worth watching who highlights this and explains the consequences for Germany should the UK leave .



She's afd , but worth a watch . Gives you some idea of the resentment building within continental Europe .

 

Marlon, I agree with much of what you have just written, in no way were my comments made to wind you up...just made as observations in the debate.
If I offended you I offer my apologies, it was not intentional...the fact that you do bother and have reasoned arguments ( not that I always agree) is why I reply...we have some good posters on here and I consider you to be one of the best.

 

Integrity does not feature in the Tory 'Lexicon'.

 

There's nothing irrational or unfounded in my post -- what part don't you understand?

 

No not all mate you have never offended me at all ,
I’m sorry I gave that impression I just went on a tangent .
You are one of the posters I always like to read even though we are not in agreement on Brexit I do respect and understand your views as you have always done mine .
No it’s just my view of the way the world is going maybe a bit depressive but it’s how I feel sometimes .
The way some people want to tear others apart for tearing others apart says it all really .
Soz for the wrong impression the pints on me if ever we meet .

 

I haven't watched the video yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if the super majority was required as the current constitution ,the Grundgesetz was overseen by the allies and written specifically to prevent change after WW2.

 

Cheers for that Marlon.....I'll be round in half an hour!!

 

But the Conservatives couldn't have done all you say if we were not in the EU. The issues you cite are as a direct result of us being in the EU.

 

The German constitution doesn't allow for referendums. Specifically after the one that Hitler ran before the war and used it to abolish parliament and take absolute control.

 

Yes, but People's Vote isn't a political party. It has no candidates in this or any previous elections.

The Brexit Party Ltd (its registered as a company not a party), is standing candidates for office. It is only allowed by electoral law to accept donations from allowed parties - there is a long list that is allowed. Unfortunately, it has been shown that their system is open to abuse and they are likely either splitting larger donations (which have to be declared), accepting donations from abroad or disallowed parties (illegal) or not maintaining proper records as required by the electoral commission. This could just be an amateur setup but when at least one official has a fraud conviction...

The punishment is likely to be a large fine after the election, but it could lead to a voiding of the result.

Mr Farage (when he is not cowering on a bus away from milkshakes) is also under investigation by the European Parliament for non-declaration of donations, which could again lead to his removal from the position of MEP if he is elected....