EU Elections

I don't like Campbell even though I'm a remainer but he shouldn't have been expelled. Expelling lifelong supporters on an issue like this is wrong and smacks of authoritarianism for me.

 

What would you suggest they do? The party has been undermined time and again by these people. Labour has changed and they either need to come on board or keep their opinions to themselves.

 

I agree with part of what you say, except that the Russians were not well on their way to pushing the Germans back when America entered the war and I don't think they could have won without heavy western help. Consider the example of the battle of Kursk in July 1943, a massive German offensive 300 miles south of Moscow nearly two years after America entered the war. Bletchley park gave the Russians detailed plans of what the Germans were going to do well in advance. Germans fielded the new and most destructive tank of world war II the Ferdinand but because of the allied bombing effort they could only field around 90 and these regularly broke down because of problems in sourcing ball bearings as axis ball bearing production and nearly been wiped out by allied bombing. The German offensive had to be called off with a number of divisions removed to reinforce Italy after operation husky to invade Sicily by the British and Americans. Whilst it is hard to see what victory would have actually look like for the Germans in Russia, I do not think that without a great degree of Western help the Russians could have achieved victory either. By the way it is far better to discuss military history then brexit.

 

I'm just uneasy about the idea of expelling people who have a long history of supporting/canvassing for their party. As I said I'm not a Campbell fan at all. In fact I'm a Corbyn supporter on most issues (apart from brexit). Ultimately he should have been given a bollocking by the NEC for stating what he did in public. The party needs to be consistent with how it deals with members who undermine it (see Jess Phillips comments) but also it needs to be empathetic about why members behave like they do on an issue like brexit. As I say he should be bollocked...

 

Campbell has stated earlier, that he always was and will always be a Labour supporter.
Sounds very much as though he is genuinely contrite and now intends to appeal
the decision to expel him.

I feel that it would be really good if the Labour hierarchy would offer him a way back, as
it looks as though they will really need as many of their supporters onside going forward.

 

Great quotes thank you

 

I'm certainly not having a go at you DR or KCP...I assume you may not know what Alistair Campbell is all about...there is little that is genuine about Campbell...in my view he and Blair should have been stripped of Labour Party membership years ago, not only that but prosecuted and put through the Courts.
This man and his gaffer Tony, are shithouse's of the worst order...I've added a link below

https://www.channel4.com/news/iraq-war-alastair-campbell-on-the-dodgy-dossier

The most damning evidence is the final part...
"Mr Campbell revealed that it was he who wrote the prime minister’s controversial foreword to a key intelligence assessment in the run-up to the Iraq war"
I could be considered as an old stick in the mud, but to me it wasn't controversial, it was criminal.

 

There is no doubt what happened on both the Eastern and Western front had an affect on each other, but let’s not forget Kursk was a result of Russia gaining the upper hand at Stalingrad and was Hitlers last attempt to regain the upper hand on the Eastern front and yes what was happening in Sicily was a huge help, but the tide had already started to turn. We will never know what would have happened if the reserves from the Western and Eastern front had not been sent to Sicily.
For me Stalingrad was a huge turning point and is often overlooked by Western history

 

Correct. Hitler was obsessed with wiping out the city named after his foe.

 

So what you're saying is that the current german man or woman in the street should be treated on the basis of their country's past behaviours.
How should we be referred to then? I get annoyed with Irish people hating us for standing by and letting a quarter of them starve to death in the famine while another quarter had to become economic migrants. It's in the past but it's exactly what we did.

 

You’ve probably already read it, but can I recommend Antony Beevor’s brilliant book ‘Stalingrad’? I was never much into military history, but this really got me hooked. Then got his D-Day book, equally good, and a tip for bargain-hunters; his book on the failed German invasion of Crete in 1941 is just 99p for the Amazon Kindle at the moment. Looking forward to starting that.

 

It's odd how some people want to share in the national responsibility for winning a war against fascism, but are also happy to turn round and go all 'sins of the father should not be visited on the son' when it comes to responsibility/reparations for slavery and colonisation.

 

Re points 1, 2, 6 and 9.
Have you seen the state of UK parliamentary democracy? All points could be equally levelled at our system as well as the EU.

Re point 10.
You dont know if the whole thing will go bang but you're prepared to pick up the tab if brexit goes bang.

 

It's true. Most countries have things to be proud of and things they'd rather forget in their history. Much like us as individuals.
I'm immensely proud of my country but we also have much to hang our heads about.

 

i think i made it quite clear that i was referring to the war period,i did actually state that was the case, so no i dont think todays generation should be accountable for what went off 70 odd years ago.... unless they actually support it..

having said this i will not be told that we 'wernt' fighting the 'germans' when we were,its nothing more than convenient to label the aggressors as 'nazis' and to dismiss the fact that it was the german nation who were responsible for the war in europe

as for our past and any sins committed, you will never ever find me defending them and any resentment is probably very deep rooted,even our own quite often refer back to colonisation when they are defending the rights migrants and things like overseas aid, and in irelands case the famine is often brought up, (rightly or wrongly)

 

The UK are at least fully voted in by its constituents.

Yes, because I don’t believe brexit will go bang.

 

We all have a vote every general election to put a representative in power.

 

Yes, but not for the leader... EU votes for the UK are very much like when we have a vote in Eurovision...

You won’t always get your own way, you realise that? You have to accept that the majority works for voting in a party?