Surprised no one has mentioned Raab's proposal of a Coup d'etat

slightly O/T

like him or loathe him the person who has had most influence on British politics in the last 3 years is Farage -- not even an M.P.
-- and if a non-MP can have so much influence then it says a lot about out present day MP's and the mess we're in.

 

I'd certainly agree with us being in a mess. The very first thing that needs taking out of politics is money. No MP should be able to earn a red cent outside their salary. No campaign contributions, no donations from lobbyists. Nothing. We might then start to have a little more confidence that our representatives are taking decisions in our best interests rather than those of themselves or their backers.

 

They only voted against leaving with no deal recently. Not when they approved the referendum and to invoke Article 50

 

Thatcher, Major, Cameron and now May, all Tory PM's to perish on the Funeral pyre
of Europe. It doesn't really matter who gets the poisoned chalice going forward, they
probably have little chance of reaching total agreement within their party.

Leading pollsters are saying that if Boris Johnson is selected as the new PM, he will
definitely split the party down the middle and if there is a General Election, will in all
probability, lead them into oblivion. Latest poll suggests that if they don't get us out of the
EU on time, they would struggle to get over thirty seats in any new Parliament.

 

Not sure it's just a Tory division. Both them and Labour are divided. The other parties have a much clearer policy whichever view they take

 

As a statistician I would consider a majority of 3% to not be significant.

 

Isn't this the type of action Dictators would do ?

Or should that be Dicktator

 

The public wasn't asked what it thought about joining the then 'Common Market' by Ted Heath in 1973, presumably because we weren't deemed smart enough to understand the highly complicated issues.
I wonder what the powers that be think has changed?
The fabulous thing about a referendum in my view, is the questioner can set the question in manner best suited to a successful outcome, the questioner, by using intelligence , should already know the outcome before putting it to the people (which is why a referendum on hanging will never happen) or the question just won't be asked in the first place. Of course, you can never account for the genius that is David Cameron!!! THE greatest thing about referenda though, is that after the dust has settled and everything has gone t*ts up, people like Johnson, Raab and Farage can quite legitimately turn round and say "Don't blame us, YOU voted for it" Sheer brilliance!!

 

i'm unsure where people get the idea that us leave voters did so on condition of what type of deal the uk and the eu came up with , the question was leave or remain, , everyone on both sides of the argument were well aware that we could well be leaving with nothing, Every leading politician told us it was a once in a lifetime decision, no going back etc etc etc.
it was not vote leave then see where the politicians have got us in 2 or 3 years and if we wernt happy then vote again

you can keep going on about what farage said but for some reason you all seem to forget what the likes of cameron,clegg and plenty of others in the commons were saying,the prominent remainers told us constantly what the consequences would be if we voted to leave

you can keep blaming farage for the referendum even happening but john major, tony blair and gordon brown all promised one would happen.

 

This thread isn't about the merits of No Deal. It's about the idea of an individual shutting down Parliament to force it through, which would be an act of dictatorship.

 

As usual you are choosing to pass off what you believe as fact for everyone. Everyone wasn’t aware we could leave without a deal because the swing voters were assured if they voted leave they could get a really easy, quick and good deal. Many millions believed that. Many millions also saw targeted adverts but that’s another story.

As for the OP it’s ridiculous that any conservative leader is offering any deal to his / her electorate. A general election is the only way ahead.

 

I read with interest..no matter. thread paper... net.. Everyone is sick to death of hearing about Brexit no matter which side the fence you sit.. My input would be to acknowledge what is or isn't happening... Complacency isn't a seat for now..
The elite classes don't want a divided Europe they want a united Europe that includes all of Europe followed by the Federal states tag... There's numerous sites some credible others not that point in the direction of a world government many years from now that makes the law for all.
That said let's stand back and address the problem now... We are all aware that Call me Dave got the shock of his life when he put the leave or stay vote to the nation.. Once again we all know he did it to silence certain sections of the Tory party... Unfortunately for him the wrong side won and he had no option but to resign... May takes over the reins and being in the same camp as Call me Dave. thinks she can reverse the situation and unite her party whilst feeding the rest of us **** and more bull ****... Drags her feet and departs ( OK says she's leaving.. Read somewhere today.. She says she could stay on unless they get someone in who can deliver Brexit for sure.. ) with the tag worst prime minister hanging around her neck... Delay after delay... All of which causes more stalling tactics... The Government is not fit for purpose... Even John major chipping in today's saying Boris / Hunt and certain others become new leader.. You can kiss goodbye to the NHS... Think that speaks volumes how much in disarray this Tory Government are in... In all my years I've never known as many tories impload and be critical of other party members... The Tory press BBC all guilty of keeping strum... Would have been a major scandal if any of the other parties.. Hardly anything of any real note on Trumps Trade deal speech... NHS on the table...
We the nation were given the task of voting.. Simple leave or stay...
The result.. Leave... Regardless of how many turned out to vote our democratic result returned a leave vote..
It doesn't matter how you look at it that return vote of leave needs to be acted upon...
Due to call me Dave and his political elite being that out of touch with the nation and in their arrogance that never in a month of Sundays would a leave vote be returned they never inserted any plan B... On how.
We now have a situation of how long is a piece of string... That piece of string getting more twisted and knotted by the minute... Everyone is to blame bar those who created the problem and yet hardly anyone calls them to task rather taking the easy target route and allowing them to create more mayhem.... My answer call a General election stop believing every negative post about JC and the Labour Party... Let's put a end to Thatchers legacies of self first self last to the sword.. Pull together and make this nation a world trade force again.. Stop this culture of haves have nots.. Instead of Europe dictating to us.. Let us tell them what's going to take place and how they are going to dance to our tune... The Germans and the French will soon back down.. Without us Euro zone can not survive and they know it.

 

Raab has had the rug pulled out from under him. The Speaker John Bercow has announced
that Parliament can't be suspended , as DR has been suggesting he might do, if he's elected as the new Prime Minister.

 

I'm not one for dipping my toe into this Brexit stuff.

Largely because I don't think it's going to make much difference one way or another what we do. And I don't believe anyone else knows either, really.

This "deal" stuff however is a complete red herring. It played no part in how people voted.

You either believe in democracy, whatever crap comes your way, or you don't.

And it seems a lot of people don't.

Fair enough.

 

If that’s what you believe fair enough but have you asked them all? Of course it played a part. Why would vote leave have felt the need to reassure people if it wasn’t important to them. Don’t base what you know now against people’s feelings in 2016.

 

And you do realize that referendums in this country are not legally binding regardless of the size of vote. Referenda are advisory and it is the decision of the government /parliament whether or not to carry out referendum decisions.

 

In any General election, do you ask people why they voted as they did and then conclude that it's wrong to accept the result because you think they took the wrong things into account?

Furthermore, when we voted it's quite reasonable to conclude that we voted out, and that was that.

If you wanted a deal thereafter, which is fair enough, then our PM came up with one.

It was just that in the meantime, after the vote to leave, our betters concluded that the MPs would first be able to decide whether such deal (presumably fairly negotiated with our reasonable fellow Europeans) was OK for us. Were we told that was going to happen before we voted?