I find it best to treat posters' views on Politicians on this BB like...

wrong German - your quote is attributed to the philosopher Immanuel Kant.

 

True but Goebbels and Hitler made good use of it.

 

Well he was a Jew so he wouldn’t have stood for the alleged antisemitism of the current labour regime

 

To be fair Hitler was a proper Kant

 

Y see that’s the hinge in the argument and it’s fundamentally flawed.
A 2nd vote isn’t a challenge to democracy it’s obviously MORE democracy.

If we elect a government that fails within a year; parliament is dissolved and we get to try again. And there has never been a bigger failure of an idea in British politics.

I have never advocated a 2nd referendum btw (not my personality). But the notion that a further democratic vote is undemocratic is one of those lies told often enough that it becomes an accepted truth. It is not true, it is utter nonsense.

 

T

Two ways to argue this, to my mind:

1) The original referendum was not a fair exercise because not only was leaving on 'no deal' terms not specifically put to the electorate but there were categoric statements from the vote leave side that we would enjoy "the exact same benefits"; the public must be asked more specifically whether they agree a hard Brexit;
2) The manner of leaving was left to Parliament, it is therefore for Parliament to determine how we exit: the original result is therefore the legitimate democratic verdict and must be honoured.

Must say I'm more in No 1) camp myself as I think this is too big a decision to be taken on a shaky premise. But I can see how No 2) can be argued.

 

The initial referendum should have had a set target for change to happen. It was pure incompetence that it wasn't. So the existing structure should always remain unless there is sizeable desire for change, whether radical or moderate. 55/45 seems fair.

The referendum question was inadequate to formulate accurate approved next steps. If the referendum was set up to ask no deal or remain, that is very explicit and can be acted upon. Or, if it were a two tier approach of remain or leave, then if leave, here are numerous options. That could also be effective.

The simple truth is the referendum in 2016 (apart from being illegal) was unfit for purpose. It was like being asked if you want something to eat. You answer yes, the immediate question is what. As vote leave couldn't even agree among themselves, to say everyone knew what leaving meant is an absolute falsehood.

Anyone who gives the argument another referendum would be divisive... well, they've been walking round with blinkers for 3 years. The UK is divided, another referendum won't make it any better or worse.

 

The leader of the country has effectively stated its a crain crash (no deal). as has Rees Mogg, as have Gove and many others.

If you're a train driver and see a train coming straight for you. Do you a) brake. b) Hope it's be alright. c) accept you're going to crash as well, you decided to set off on this track and that's just the way it is.

 

1) Bare majority, like the 2016 referendum. Can't possibly be on any other basis.
2) Yes - would accept. We now know how damaging and difficult leaving is as opposed to what was said before the 2016 referendum. If people are still prepared to vote out despite that then they deserve all the consequences.
3) Not a serious question.

 

Dianne Abbott

As he?? Never read/ seen that but if you have a link I will wind my gizzard in

 

It’s beyond belief that normal everyday sane folk think this is the best way ahead. The sheer pig headed ness of the average man and woman astounds me over this issue.

 

No, there is some Tory good, Labour bad as well, Tory boy.

 

In commons in maiden speech

 

nothing wrong with a further democratic vote but only after the result of the original one has been implemented. Disregarding a democratic vote is undemocratic.

 

Mr O thanks for your measured responses to my posts - alas I must now love you and leave you - footy is upon us and that is more important than life or death and trivialities like the EU!

 

They’ve ‘failed’ to implement it, that’s not the same as disregarding it. Just like failing to form a government.

 

YOU find it best,etc...? Nice intro..
When has a class war not existed? Amongst all species? Google Charlie Darwin & get back to me..
Your last sentence/thought is priceless. I'll give you that...

 

Even if it’s illegal?

 

I have said it before and I will say it again, not many outside politics in the uk knew the real ins and out of the EU, many only knew what the Russian memes brigade flooded the social media with, don't hear a lot about that anymore. It was too big a decision for the general public to vote on, should have given parliament the free whip to vote first, arrange a leaving deal if that was the choice then given the people the vote to leave or remain.tt

 

Can't see how, from your assertion that the public aren't smart enough to be trusted with the vote on in or out, how they end up being smart enough to vote in or out on a leaving deal.

(btw your Russian conspiracy theory is exciting)